----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Pensinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 11:39 PM Subject: Re: New Pope?
> Dan wrote: > > >> Pffft. Developing implies some sort of progress. We're backsliding. > > > > Out of curiosity, how is that possible if you don't believe in truth? > > huh? Well, I guess that _was_ a bit of a jump on my part, but I've been mulling over things you've said for a while, and I don't see how several things fit together. One of the things we've kicked back and forth was whether or not we need to posit some points as self-evident. I've argued for it, you've argued for things being explainable in terms of that which is evolutionarily favored. Given that criterion, how can there be backsliding. In evolution, there is no better or worse, good or bad, simply favored under a given set of circumstances. If one were to look at current events, one were > I was thinking mostly in terms of the last four years or so, not really on > an evolutionary time scale. I realize that a president neither you nor I voted for is in office. But, I believe in standards that are superior to "Dan likes" or "Doug likes." Besides Bush's actions are not your druthers, what basis can you use to say we've gone backwards over the last four years. As I've mentioned many times, I take the faith statements in the Declaration of Independence "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." as corollaries to an axiom I take on faith "we are created in God's image." As I also mentioned many times, I consider those who simply take human rights as axioms fellow travelers who I can have a pleasant arm waving theological discussion with over beers, not someone on the other side. >From many of your posts, I get the feeling that you do believe in human rights. Yet, you seem to argue that you do not see faith needed for an ethical society. So, when you write about backsliding, which implies a standard against which even cultures that have lasted a long time can be measured and found wanting, I have a hard time reconciling this with your posts that indicate that you do not feel that faith is needed for ethics. Dan M. _______________________________________________ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
