On 6/28/06, Warren Ockrassa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The max fuel load of a top-of-the-line 737 is 37,712 Kg, or around
90,000 pounds. Figure 8 pounds of water in a gallon and you've got
better than 10K gallons of fuel in a 737, give or take.


Oops.  Fuel weighs less than water (a fact that is impressed upon one when
learning to fly).  Part of every pre-flight inspection to drain a bit of
fluid from the lowest points on the tanks, to ensure that what comes out is
fuel, not water (typically from condensation in the airplane, the fuel truck
or tanks).  If you get water, you keep draining until you don't get any.
Jet-A weighs 6.5 to 7 lbs/gallon, nominally 6.76 lbs/gallon in the United
States and Europe.

Okay, not a foot. A decimeter, about four inches. But you get the idea.
That is a hell of a lot of explosive fluid, and the 737s that hit the
WTC towers were on long-distance flights, at the beginning of their
journeys, and damn near capacity in their tanks.


Explosive, you say?  This is kerosene, not gasoline.  Try this at home (away
from flammable stuff).  Put some kerosene in a glass (don't use styrofoam).
Light a match.  Stick it in the kerosene.  It will go out.  Do not try this
with gasoline.

And yes, it's kerosene, not gasoline. Lower octane rating. But the
flashpoints of the two are close enough to one another (-40 C for
gasoline, 29 C for kerosene, which is a lot in human space but nothing
for chemistry) that any spark hot enough to light a cigarette would set
them off.


Baloney.  Really.  I've used a lot of kerosene to start fires (to burn brush
at my parent's farm) and I can assure you that it is not so easy to ignite.
It is nowhere near as volatile as gasoline.


And the higher flashpoint of jet fuel was one of the reasons
the towers burned so long. Think of carpeting, wallpaper, ceiling tiles
-- wicking all that kerosene and then burning slowly like a candle.
Heat on heat, mounting slowly, on the central steel framework of the
buildings until their central columns were like hot solder.


Sorry, but that strikes me as simply arguing from your conclusion.  I'd like
to see a peer-reviewed simulation.  Maybe there's one out there.

It's not high heat in a crock pot that makes your stew; it's a long,
slow cook.


Uh,  isn't that an argument against high temperatures???


You suggested earlier that fires are chaotic. Well, they are. (You'd
know.) For the first 18 minutes or so, no one even knew the US was
being attacked in a coordinated effort. So conflicting reports, chaotic
orders and strange omissions in emergency responses aren't that hard to
understand, are they?


I'm not talking so much about what happened after the attack as what was
happening by coincidence prior to it.

What's more plausible? That buildings designed to implode


I hadn't realized that the buildings were designed to implode.  Many sources
seem to agree on this, it seems, which helps me to feel reassured.


As much as I'd love to see Bush
done up for treason, I just can't get aboard here.


I'm not "aboard" either.  I'm just bothered by how many things seemed to
come together for this to happen.  But then again, that's often the way it
is when an unusual event takes place.  Perhaps it was the Hand of God at
work.  (I'm really, really not serious, except that there's part of me that
thinks anything is possible.)

Let's think of what didn't work for a moment. The Pentagon didn't
collapse; only one face was affected.


Wasn't that the just-reinforced face?  And why were the engine parts at the
Pentagon from a different airplane?  That's the sort of thing I'd like
explained.

But there just isn't credible evidence to accept the idea of a
conspiracy.


No disagreement here.  As I said, I'm more concerned about the lack of
answers, rather than the implications of the evidence available.  There
could be a lot more evidence available.  What's more deserving of a deep and
thorough investigation?  How about some explanations of why there hasn't
been more investigation?  Of course, the answer is probably purely
political.

The
> outrage of fire investigators is appropriate.  At the very least, we
> failed
> to learn a great deal that could go into designs to resist such
> attacks.

How? How can you possibly make a skyscraper with every possible
contingency in mind?


Nobody has proposed that.  Have you seen the comments of frustrated fire
engineering experts?  A great deal could have been learned.

Nick

--
Nick Arnett
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Messages: 408-904-7198
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