-----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> On Behalf Of jon louis mann
> Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2007 6:33 PM
> To: Killer Bs Discussion
> Subject: war is terror...
> 
> the evidence is that a blockade would not have ended WWII.
> it would have allowed the Soviet Union to switch it's forces to the 
> Eastern Front...
> which probably would have resulted in a Soviet sphere. (snippet)
> 
> my japanese stepmother told me the americans dropped the bomb because 
> japan was negotiating a surrender to the commies, which would have 
> ended the war, and japan would have become a soviet satellite.
> jonsan

I'm not sure if you know, but extensive documentation of the deliberations
of both the Japanese and American governments exists.  I was able to get a
copy of "Why Japan Surrendered" by Robert Pape (International Security, Vol
18, No 2, pp. 154-201).  He brought up some factors that I knew and some I
didn't (including that the USSR invasion of Manchuria's devastating success
was a factor in the surrender of Japan).

But, the important point here is that this question has been the subject of
tremendous scholarship by people who have access to a wealth of primary
documents.  I would trust a rumor heard in Japan about the motivations of
the US and Japanese government about as much as I'd trust a rumor in
Germany, or the US.  After all, there are stories that a fraction of the US
is convinced about the UN and its black helicopters about to take over the
US or the WTC being rigged with explosives that are believed.

> >what role do governments have in going to war when the solution might 
> >be to find a way to give people in these countries hope?
> 
> if most wars are due to government seeking advantage (which certainly 
> is the case in iraq) it is even more tragic that freedom loving 
> americans went along with bushco.  we had no dictatorship to resist.

But, the advantage that the US sought was not a bad thing.  A government
that existed to provide for the people it governed in Iraq would be a good
thing for them.  

> wars may not be correlated with desperation, but this war is to defeat 
> terrorism, which can be described as tactics of desperation.
> the wars of the last 30 years are vastly different than 250 years ago, 
> although people lived under oppessive regimes.

As framed and stated by GBW et. al. it does sound silly.  But, framed
differently, as a long term worldwide COIN, fighting the insurgency does
make sense.

Like the cold war, though, individual battles (such as Gulf War II) can be
disastrous and/or foolish.  But, that doesn't mean that isolationism is a
better option.  For example, was the US wrong to stick its nose in the
business of others in Gulf War I or the Balkans?  I think a neoisolationism
policy, which I think you are advocating...but would happily accept
clarification on....will be more harmful than our policy of the last 20 or
so years.  



Dan M.

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