> The measure of a civilization could be said to be > its consumption of energy and how it uses resources. > Conspicuous v. sustainable... > Jon > > From: medieva...@aol.com > Twas in Last And First Men, by Olaf Stapledon, > I think, where all future > civilizations had their power based upon alcohol. > Nothing stored from the past was left.
I never could get through Stapleton. What was destroyed; all other sources of power? How could that be? > > From: John Garcia <john...@gmail.com> > I'm reading John Varley's Slow Apocalypse. The > premise is that all > un-processed petroleum is destroyed by an act of > bio-terrorism. In the > middle of it right now, but so far it's scaring the > spit out of me. > john Years ago George R.R. Martin wrote a pilot called "Doors". If I remember correctly it was about an alternative Earth where a virus was created to absorb oil spills and it ended up eating up all traces of petrochemicals everywhere on Earth and civilization went back to the horse and buggy days. (not necessarily a bad thing!~) Jon Mann > >The measure of a civilization could be said to be > Its consumption of energy and how it uses resources. > Conspicuous v. sustainable... > Jon Mann > At what point was civilization sustainable without depending > on unknowable > innovations in the future? It would have to be before > steel, because > blacksmithing almost deforested England before coal was > found and used (back > around 1000 I think). Going to Africa, and seeing the > sustainable organic > farming they used to get 5 bushels/acre out of depleted soil > reminded me of > what my Zambian daughter Neli argued, to no avail, to the > government of > Uganda. That using natural methods would just have > it's people starve, like > they have for centuries. Unfortunately, the European > Greens were more > powerful in their persuasion....and Uganda will remain poor > until they stop > listening to them. It's hard because the EU policy is > dedicated to > protecting inefficient EU (mostly French) farmers. > Dan M. You have a Zambian daughter, Dan? I have no clue at what point civilization was sustainable after the leap from hunter gatherer to agriculture to industrial society. I suppose it won't happen unless humanity matures beyond greedy, pleasure seeking immediate gratification, self centered behavior, and that probably won't happen unless there is a singularity event. How were the European Greens responsible for keeping Uganda poor, by turning them away from nuclear? I was following the conversation but I still think there are problems, especially with some of the older nuclear plants. I recall reading about unethical cost cutting shortcuts and Japanese government coverups, etc. Is it true that only one person died as a result of the earthquake and tsunami off Sendai, or is that just so far? What about long term effects of the meltdown? I had a friend who survived Hiroshima only to die many years later. Jon _______________________________________________ http://box535.bluehost.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l_mccmedia.com
