My feeling is that in Britain we don't know enough about the practicalities of having observers for us to rule the idea out completely. This is obviously because we don't really need them at the moment and I, like many others it seems, would prefer that we didn't have them.
I do feel quite strongly that the presence of impartial officials takes the responsibility away from players, thus giving them the right to cheat whenever they want. If you're competitive enough, playing a game with no stakes whatsoever can still involve a certain amount of rule bending or breaking. Therefore, I don't accept that as the stakes in Ultimate are increased there is a greater need for observers. Sunday league football, or indeed Wednesday night 5-a-side seem to be pretty low level sporting confrontations (few 'titles' to be won there) which have no end of cheating and gamesmanship. I don't think the presence of officials does anything to reduce that. Furthermore, I know highly spirited (and very competitive) Ultimate players that approach other sports very differently when there is a referee present. I once had to referee a football match of Ultimate players - it was ugly! However, maybe we should try having observers in domestic games sometime. We'll learn more about how it works and for those who have to play those mean old Americans it could be good preparation. One other thing - someone mentioned off-sides. Is it about time we all tried to be onside for pulls much more? In particular, those throwing the pulls should try much harder to be onside. I will if you will! Ben LeedsLeedsLeeds #29 -----Original Message----- From: Justin Parkhurst [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 16 March 2004 16:23 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [BD] SoG & observers While its interesting to note the evolution of the football Referee, I think Jon P made a valid point we need to remember when reading it - in the US, observers were brought in because cheating started happening to a greater extent - not the other way around. The same is seen here in the football case. Ultimate is growing, there is no doubt about that. What we really need to ask is, is Ultimate qualitatively different from other sports in its notion of Spirit and self-calling, or is it pretty much a sport like any other - where, at the highest levels, you need someone to judge differences of opinion (John McEnroe may disagree here...)? Someday money may be at stake - not just the (limited) fame from being a championship team - when winning means a bigger paycheque, can we expect spirit to prevail? - the history of Football seems to show it probably wont - indeed, what has happened in the US also shows this. As it grows, it becomes more competitive, and as that happens, people will be more and more willing to break the rules - or at least push them to a more competitive edge. It's only natural that when you play in the park you dont need to worry about this, but when you drop several thousand pounds to fly to Hawaii to compete after training for months, you are going to push the envelope more - and thats what is happening. As an example, can I bring up a past BritDisc discussion on whether you can start stalling someone when they have caught the disc and run out of bounds. The fact of the matter is, I only know competitive teams in competitive environments who do this - this interpretation of the rule (and no, I'm not accusing anyone of cheating) would not have happened if we all still played for fun in the park Similarly, discussions I've had about intentionally stepping into a cutter's way - is it allowed? is it a pick? a foul? whatever your interpretation, people are pushing the envelope with ultimate as it grows more competitive. In the US people were starting to cheat intentionally (I've had tips on how to fast count or bump the thrower without getting called on it) - and this was not because of observers, but lead to them. I'd love it if we could all be self-regulating. I'd love it if we all played with great spirit (and I value the spirit awards I've won) but the question is, will this actually happen if Ultimate continues to grow? Many of you reading this will say 'I play Ultimate because I love it and one aspect of that is loving the lack of referee' That is a great feeling, but the sad fact is, that is not why everyone plays Ultimate - they play because its a great sport - like football, basketball, tennis, and every other great sport which relies on referees. The only alternative I can see to an eventual phasing in observers is a more clear and powerful institutional regulatory force in place - that is to say, if someone cheats, you can make complaints to a body with the power to ban them from matches. Writing observers out of the rulebook does not address the problem of people starting to push the rules and, yes, break them intentionally. Otherwise, what recourse do we have but to take our disc and go home? -Justin P __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://pootle.near.me.uk/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/informed.asp
