On point 1, I think that there is an exception (and a grey area) that allows for the stall count to be commenced if a player is deliberately taking their time to establish the pivot in order to give their team an unfair advantage (i.e. chasing into position following a huck and catch). I guess that comes down to the the player on disc and their marker both being sensible about what constitutes deliberately taking too long.
On 5/22/07, Noble, Kevin (SELEX) (UK) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tails, 2. Good. There were definitely times at MT2 where a pick was called and possession was lost after several passes but teams insisted in declining the call. 1. It makes sense as the general intention of the stalling rule, but this specific marker violation seems to contradict your point. The rules below would suggest that a pivot point is established once returning from out of bounds. He is still in-bounds but he still needs to put the disc into play (see 9.1) and therefore is yet to establish a pivot foot. Maybe. I can't see a rule where it says a pivot foot is established on crossing the line. 12.3.1. If momentum causes a player to touch an out-of-bounds area after catching the disc in-bounds, the player is considered inbounds. That players puts the disc into play at the spot on the Field of Play closest to where they first crossed the Perimeter Line. 9.1. Putting the disc into play means that the offensive player in possession of the disc establishes a pivot point (typically their foot) at the point on the Field of Play as specified. Cheers, Kevin -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Taylor Sent: 22 May 2007 13:15 To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [BD] Rules questions *** WARNING *** This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an external partner or the Global Internet. Keep this in mind if you answer this message. My take on these rules: 1. The pivot point has been established, as it is where the receiving player crossed the line. Just because the player is not there, does not stop that being the pivot point. It is therefore legal to stall. I think the point of that rule is that if someone is running, catches the disc, and continues running a bit (while slowing down as fast as possible of course), if you are 3m behind him when he catches it: you can't stop still and start stalling him, when he has now moved to 4m away. 2. The point of the continuation rule is specifically for that pass. If someone calls pick, and then the disc is thrown and turned over, then it is not a turnover, and possession reverts to the thrower, everything resets to when the pick was called. So if pick is called while the disc is in the air, then the continuation rule applies for that pass. If the player decides to throw it again, then the pick was called before that throw, so that throw doesn't matter. So the disc would go back to the original thrower in that case. Hope my interpretations are both correct and understandable. Tails >From: "Noble, Kevin (SELEX) (UK)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: [BD] Rules questions >Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 12:32:42 +0100 > > > > >Before my questions, I thought MT2 was a great venue and tournament all >round. Good pitches, good showers, good catering, good weather etc... >I'm glad, though, that I didn't have three games back to back on Sunday >(like positions 25 to 28). I'm surprised there haven't been any >complaints about that. I guess it means an earlier finish and a chance >to watch the final. > > > >Anyway, to my rules questions: > >Not sure if the conclusions I have drawn are correct. >(copy of rules here) >http://www.ukultimate.com/system/files/WFDF+Ultimate+Rules+2007.pdf > > >1) Violation >Under the following rules, if a player's momentum carries him off the >pitch after a catch, it is a violation to start stalling before a pivot >foot is established and the defender therefore cannot start the count >before the player is back on the pitch. > > >17.3. Marker Violations >17.3.1. Marking violations include the following: > >17.3.1.4.3. starts the stall count before the Offensive player >establishes both possession of the disc and a pivot point > > > >2) Continuation/pick >What happens if a pick is called when the disc is in the air and the >catch is completed but the catcher then throws the disc into the ground >like the muppet that he is? Even though the team that called the >violation eventually gained possession (18.3), play only continues >until possession is established (18.1). So the pass into the ground >occurred after play had stopped and therefore has no relevance to the >call? My main question here is whether "play continues until >possession has been established" implies that play stops once >possession has been established. Importantly, the team that called the >violation did not gain possession "as a result of the pass" but as a >result of the pass after that. I guess the call could be declined >(18.5) as the call did not affect the catchers ability to throw. >However, it probably did affect a runner who stopped once possession >was gained who might have otherwise caught the rubbish pass. So is the >answer catch the throw and gain possession but ignore what happens >after that? Disc goes back to thrower anyway? > > >18. Continuation Rule >18.1. If a foul or violation occurs when the disc is in the air or >while the thrower was in the act of throwing, play continues until >possession has been established. >18.2. If the foul or violation was called against the thrower (e.g. >travel >or offensive foul by the thrower), and the thrower attempts a pass >after the call, play continues until possession has been established. >18.3. If the team that called the foul or violation gains or retains >possession as a result of the pass, play shall continue unhalted. >Players recognizing this should call "Play on" immediately to indicate >that this rule has been invoked. >18.4. If the team that called the foul or violation does not gain or >retain possession as a result of the pass, play shall be stopped and >the disc will be returned to the thrower for a check. >18.5. If the team that called the foul or violation believes that play >has not been affected by the foul or violation, they should decline the >foul or violation, make up any positional disadvantage caused by the >foul or violation, and restart play with a check. > > >Thanks, > >Kevin >BASIC > >SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems Limited Registered Office: Sigma >House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex >SS14 3EL >A company registered in England & Wales. Company no. 02426132 >******************************************************************** >This email and any attachments are confidential to the intended >recipient and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended >recipient please delete it from your system and notify the sender. >You should not copy it or use it for any purpose nor disclose or >distribute its contents to any other person. >******************************************************************** > > >__________________________________________________ >BritDisc mailing list >[email protected] >http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc >Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed _________________________________________________________________ New, exclusive and FREE - Download Madonna's "Hey You" now! http://www.liveearth.msn.com __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed SELEX Sensors and Airborne Systems Limited Registered Office: Sigma House, Christopher Martin Road, Basildon, Essex SS14 3EL A company registered in England & Wales. 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