Thanks Brummie et al, for all the useful and valid comments made during the course of this debate (it's been a lot more enjoyable than the usual pie-fights over pitch-side water...). Has anyone ever thought about setting up a quick online poll to gauge the wider opinion on this contentious Britdisc/Eurodisc debate? I for one would find it useful to capture the feelings of the wider Ultimate population (the readers of Britdisc/Eurodisc, not just the posters)? A poll would not be an attempt to prevent or support anyone doing what they want to do with regards to running tournaments with different rule-sets. Everyone should be free to play whatever form of the game they wish. This is just done partly out of curiosity and also partly to help others to make decisions on future evolutions of the game, hopefully for the benefit of all. Of course, it would also only be a further (but wider) gauge of OPINION. Some suggestions for questions (based around the most contentious issues raised in this interesting and enjoyable debate): 1. Would you want an active referee to be present in your Ultimate games at a competitive level? (YES/NO) 2. Does Ultimate with active refereeing make the game more appealing/enjoyable for spectators? (YES/NO) 3. If elite players play their competitive games with active refereeing, how does that impact your perception of Ultimate? (Positively/Negatively/No change) 4. If elite players play their competitive games with active refereeing, how would you believe that would impact the public perception of Ultimate? (Positively/Negatively/No change) 5. Is active refereeing in conflict with the Spirit Of The Game? (YES/NO) 6. Should a game with active refereeing still be considered (and named) ‘Ultimate’? (YES/NO) 7. How would you describe your Ultimate playing level? (1-5, 5=National player, 1=beginner having played a handful of tournaments) 8. (Just out of interest…) Where you play most of your competitive Ultimate? (UK/Mainland Europe/USA/Other) Russ.
________________________________ From: Sion Scone <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, 14 January, 2009 9:47:16 PM Subject: [BD] MLU I was so incensed by some of the utter c...@p being written that I actually signed back up to BritDisc... suppose this means I'll end up having another argument with Grayson and Jaimie.;-) Firstly - MLU is not a new concept. See http://ultivillage.com/index.php/Tournament-Series/2006-major-league-ultimate-mlu-dvd. Watch the trailer. Hell, buy it, its only $13. It's a *fun* experiment to try some of the things that Dale, Jacko etc have mentioned; to make the game faster and appeal more to an audience. It is ultimate. Its just a different type. Same way that beach, indoors (*spits on the floor*), mini, etc are all a variation on the real game. And its not going to destroy the sport you love either. I can't really believe that people who play ultimate, a blatantly hippie sport thats only been around for 30ish years, would be so against another new style of play. As for the discussion about playing vs watching: as far as I'm aware, no-one has actually played it yet. I expected better really... prejudice isn't the kind of thing I'd expect from the Ultimate community. As for the debate about Spirit... Derryk makes the best point of all. It is a sad fact that there are people who blatantly cheat. If you haven't had the pleasure of playing against them, or seeing it for yourself, you should watch the BlockStack episode featuring Ireland v Venezuela. Imagine working hard for years to achieve something and being beaten by blatant cheating. Without stooping to the same level, how do you combat it? I can testify that it made WUGC a much sadder tournament for me than I was hoping it would be. How about just the simple fact that SOTG is interpreted differently by everyone; how calls are managed at a beginners indoor tournament, a fun beach tournament, student nationals or EUCF are all very, very different. Each nation tends to have a slightly different bias too (there was a big discussion about this on EuroDisc, check the archive if you like). For instance, more North American teams will accept more contact, Europeans less. A lot of Americans who move to Europe have to change their style of play to be less physical; the aggressive style of marking that is prevalent in the States (I can testify to this having played there) would be interpreted as "unspirited" in Europe. But its simply a different interpretation of the same text. Of course, this doesn't mean that there aren't teams in Europe who will cheat (I can think of at least 3 major offenders). Fortunately, in MLU fouls are treated as a tactical part of the game. If you buy that dvd I mentioned - you should - you'll see a bit where one player uses one of his fouls tactically to prevent an easy goal. The referees applied the correct punishment and play continued. So while you might see a few, really blatant tactical fouls, its all part of the game; and very well-natured in fact between two players who both knew the foul was blatant (he just hugged him to prevent a throw, nothing dangerous). Its much better than being constantly grabbed by your defender, them clawing at the disc you're trying to throw, etc - all common when you play GOAT, Chain Lightning, etc. As for referees: I don't think we need them in ultimate. I'd like to have observers sometimes... but I've never played with either observers or referees. I'd certainly give it a try in an experiment like MLU. If you don't like it - don't play it. It won't affect ultimate in any way, shape or form. Its just a one-off experiment. So just chill. Brummie p.s. no-one should ever give Si Weeks a whistle. __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed __________________________________________________ BritDisc mailing list [email protected] http://www.fysh.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/britdisc Staying informed - http://www.ukultimate.com/staying-informed
