I don't see the relevance of the basketball example that Steve has quoted
(no offence meant, Steve). In basketball, an intentional foul results in an
immediate opportunity for the impeded team to gain 2 points from the free
throw line and, thus, the impeding team is likely to be punished.
There is no such similar rule in Ultimate.
In Ultimate, if you are intentionally fouled, the best you can possibly
hope for is for the foul not to be contested and for you to continue the
point from that position, but with any flow that you may have developed
completely stopped. There is NO benefit to the impeded team whilst there is
obviously benefits to the impeding team. It is for this reason that, in a
number of instances in the WFDF rules, it states that players should make
every attempt to avoid contact.
In my opinion, if you are going to start accepting intentional (contact)
fouls, then you have to start imposing punishments on those causing the
foul. The day that happens, Ultimate stops being the sport I love playing.
As a separate point, football is a contact sport and any comparisons
between that and Ultimate are very unlikely to be relevant.
Oscar
On , Steve G <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi BD,
I think quite a bit of the flexibility in contact comes from the North
American side of things. If you watch any NCAA or NBA basketball
where non-contact is also a requirement, there are moments in a game
where they do intentionally foul a player to let them have two shots
from the free throw line rather than allow them to run down the clock,
or get a 3 point shot away. Tactical fouls in a non-contact sport are
accepted.
With this precedent set, it doesn't take long before players from one
game translate that mentality to Ultimate. It's not considered the
same as lying about something like a disc being up or down or a foot
in or out or diving to draw a red card. It's using the rules and
accepting the punishments to your advantage. I'm not saying it's
great, but it's also not necessarily cheating if you aren't trying
avoid the punishment.
I think it's a culture thing. If you play in the US or Canada, expect
the odd foul on stall 1 or 2 when it has less damaging an effect for
the D but has the advantage of stopping flow. Some teams just play
that way and that's a different cultural interpretation of how to play
the game.
Steve
On 17 May 2011 22:45, Steven Hunter [email protected]> wrote:
> After reading the email from before talking about physical contact I
agree that whilst running or bidding for a disc there will be acceptable
contact. Also, that if an offensive player runs into a defensive player
who is holding their ground this is fine (assuming that the defensive
player hasn't moved into that position for that purpose)
>
> However, in recent years I have had numerous occasions where players
have intentionally fouled on the mark and when pulled up on this have
admitted it seeming to think that this is normal and part of the game,
using such phrases as, 'if you want to call a foul, call a foul'. In my
opinion this is cheating, similar to diving in football, an act purely to
gain an advantage. Other examples in ultimate would be calling yourself
in when out, claiming to have caught the disc when it is down etc...
>
> These other things would never be accepted if people freely admitted
them.
>
> Is it just that I have had a few bad experiences with some unscrupulous
people or is this something that has become accepted in certain sections
of the game. Or is it just my inner hippy.
>
> Steve
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