Yamn!!! Once again something so easy turns into political hell. So
Sad.

Personally, I don't care whether Daniel is "officially" recognized or
not, I'll still be reading his blog.

BTW, Symfony allows people to just add their own blogs ;)
http://trac.symfony-project.com/wiki/SymfonyBloggers. Plus their blog
summarizes everything.


On Jun 3, 5:29 pm, Nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My blog is not an "official blog", it just happens to be my blog, and
> I happen to be the lead developer of this project.
>
> In response to these and any further comments, I'll refer everyone to
> my previous posts.  Specifically:
>
> (1) "... I have no wish to support such a person by consciously
> allowing him to benefit from my personal efforts and those of my
> friends and teammates."
>
> and
>
> (2) "Part of being an adult is dealing with it and moving on even if
> you disagree, rather than continuing to argue even though it'll get
> you nowhere."
>
> On Jun 3, 4:20 pm, villas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > @Nate
> > My original point was not really about your blog and I wouldn't have
> > mentioned it at all if you hadn't unfairly started singling out
> > CakeBaker's less successful postings (as compared to his large number
> > of excellent ones).
>
> > However,  surely no one can help noticing the obvious discrepancy
> > between the quality which is acceptable to the Cake Team as an
> > official blog, as compared to CakeBaker's blog.  It's like the
> > Emperors Got No Clothes, but no one would like to say.
>
> > Clearly anyone who uses Cake must have gratitude for your hard work.
> > However,  how can a discussion about the quality of the community blog
> > roll just be your own 'personal matter'.  Surely the entire Cake
> > project transcends that,  doesn't it?
>
> > My original point was straight-forward enough:  why not put the best
> > blogs on the list.  If the Cake team cannot put their personal reasons
> > aside to bring themselves to agree with such an obvious proposition,
> > then it's a shame.
>
> > @All.   Of course it is rather disappointing that such an enthusiastic
> > blogger is not encouraged officially.  However,  as Nate has
> > intimated,  those that enjoy Cakebaker's posts can simply continue to
> > visit and encourage him over on his blog site.  As, of course,  we
> > must encourage all those that spend their time working on and writing
> > about Cake,  and especially for the excellent work done recently by
> > those contributing to the Book.  Thanks guys.
>
> > On Jun 3, 7:03 pm, Nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > (1) I'll post whatever I want on my own blog, whether it has anything
> > > to do with Cake or not (the last few posts really don't).  I'll
> > > continue to do so, because I don't owe you anything.  And nothing I've
> > > ever posted has anything to do with Daniel directly (probably not
> > > indirectly either).
>
> > > (2) Am I raining down fire and brimstone here on this mailing list?
> > > No.
>
> > > (3) Dissent is great, my problem is the attitude in which it is
> > > expressed.
>
> > > (4) This is a personal matter, and I'll keep my own counsel on how to
> > > handle it and "build community" (See my previous comment regarding
> > > other peoples' opinions on the issue [i.e. I don't care]).
>
> > > On Jun 3, 1:56 pm, villas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > @nate
> > > > To sum up the absurdity of your own position,  look no further than
> > > > your own blog which boasts three posts in over a year.
>
> > > > Example:  http://cake.insertdesignhere.com/posts/view/19
> > > > "No One Really Cares.  Come on people, it's just blogging. You're not
> > > > writing the next Dan Brown thriller. Quit over-analyzing and post it
> > > > already. Just throwing that out there."
>
> > > > IMO Cakebaker is much more thoughtful than just "throwing it out".
> > > > But, in any case, why wouldn't he be allowed to express questionable
> > > > personal opinions and make mistakes?  Let the one who has never been
> > > > argumentative or made a mistake,  cast the first stone.  It certainly
> > > > shouldn't be you!
>
> > > > Your next post is no doubt a fascinating insight into Cake,  the
> > > > "Greater Internet F**kwad Theory".  To be honest,  I couldn't even
> > > > make myself click into that one.  I suppose you think this warrants
> > > > your own presence on the blog list just because it's your blog and
> > > > what you say is always good and right?  Give us a break.
>
> > > > How do you expect to build any sense of friendly community with such
> > > > fire and brimstone raining down from the top!  For goodness sake,
> > > > chill out and allow people to speak their minds and dissent a little
> > > > (maybe half as much as you allow yourself would be fine).
>
> > > > You make a massive contribution to Cake.  However,  CakeBaker is also,
> > > > in his own individualistic way, making some contribution too.  Cut the
> > > > guy some slack.
>
> > > > On Jun 3, 5:43 pm, Nate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > At the risk of getting embroiled in yet another heated debate, I'm
> > > > > going to respond to this *once*:
>
> > > > > While his recent posts have been somewhat informative and helpful, in
> > > > > my opinion they are more than outweighed by the months of posts which
> > > > > were critical, argumentative, and just generally unhelpful.  Daniel
> > > > > seems to like to argue for the sake of arguing, which is
> > > > > counterproductive.  Rather than pointing out improvements in a
> > > > > constructive way, he chooses to simply tear down, attack, and question
> > > > > in a condescending way.  This gets people riled up, and I end up
> > > > > having to waste my time explaining my decisions and why Daniel is
> > > > > wrong.  This is time I could be spending fixing bugs or adding
> > > > > features.
>
> > > > > Also, Daniel has a pathological aversion to taking any kind of
> > > > > responsibility for anything he does or says.  is latest post (http://
> > > > > cakebaker.42dh.com/2008/06/02/new-callback-methods-for-components/) is
> > > > > a perfect example.  Rather than taking responsibility for not noticing
> > > > > features which have been in the core for years, he blames us for the
> > > > > fact that they are "well hidden", which is utterly absurd, as they are
> > > > > used in core components and were mentioned specifically in the
> > > > > changelog (https://trac.cakephp.org/wiki/changelog/1.2.x.x).
>
> > > > > But the most classic example of all is 
> > > > > here:http://cakebaker.42dh.com/2007/08/31/what-do-i-wrong-that-the-other-p....
> > > > > The absurdity of blaming others for your own shortcomings is just
> > > > > dumbfounding.
>
> > > > > This problem poisons all communication between him and the members of
> > > > > the CakePHP team, it was the cause of the rift between him and the
> > > > > Cake team in the first place, and I don't want someone like that
> > > > > associated with the official resources of this project.  As someone
> > > > > who's invested a great deal of personal time and effort into this
> > > > > project, I think I'm well within my rights to make that decision.  His
> > > > > behavior is outside the bounds of what I consider a productive member
> > > > > of an Open Source community (I am most certainly not alone in my
> > > > > opinion), and so far I have seen no evidence of his willingness to
> > > > > change.
>
> > > > > For those of you who disagree with my decision, let me put this to you
> > > > > very plainly: I don't care.  This is a personal decision which no one
> > > > > outside the core team has any right to a voice in.  I am not
> > > > > preventing anyone from reading Daniel's blog, nor am I trying to.
> > > > > Nor, for that matter, am I disparaging the technical content of it,
> > > > > which by and large is quite good.  My decision is based on a person
> > > > > and his attitude, an attitude which, again, I do not feel reflects the
> > > > > Open Source spirit (and again, feel free to disagree with me, because
> > > > > I don't care).
>
> > > > > If at any point in the future, Daniel chooses have a more productive
> > > > > attitude, I would welcome his input openly, in all matters of this
> > > > > project.  But until then, I have no wish to support such a person by
> > > > > consciously allowing him to benefit from my personal efforts and those
> > > > > of my friends and teammates.
>
> > > > > On Jun 2, 9:02 pm, villas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > How does the Cake Team choose the list of blogs mentioned on
> > > > > > cakephp.org?
>
> > > > > > If the listing is chosen objectively,  it should include those blogs
> > > > > > with the highest quality and quantity of posts.  Especially those
> > > > > > which are helpful to general Cake users.
>
> > > > > > On what basis therefore is CakeBaker's blog excluded?  
> > > > > > http://cakebaker.42dh.com
>
> > > > > > CakeBaker's posts have consistently been high quality,  informative
> > > > > > and interesting.  And,  more importantly,  he is the most prolific
> > > > > > blogger that the Cake community has (as far as I know).
>
> > > > > > He may be opinionated and irritate the Core Team.  However,  as far 
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > I can see,  he is always open to other opinions and corrections.
> > > > > > Indeed the debates in the blog comments are in themselves
> > > > > > enlightening. It is generally postive and honest about Cake even 
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > shortcomings are noted.  And as we all know,  top class open source
> > > > > > projects have nothing to fear from those who make positive 
> > > > > > criticism.
> > > > > > Indeed they are only strengthened by it.
>
> > > > > > Good bloggers should not be taken for granted and ignored,  they
> > > > > > should be embraced and encouraged.
>
> > > > > > I may be a lone voice in the desert,  but I would respectfully ask 
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > the Cake webmaster to reconsider CakeBaker's inclusion in the list,
> > > > > > that is until of course he is overtaken by other, even higher 
> > > > > > quality
> > > > > > bloggers :-)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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