Agree with Barb. Callers who are nationally known sometimes tend to come to dances expecting that everyone's experienced but in reality there are a fair amount of new dancers there. Glen Echo is a place that is popular and does tend to attract a lot of experienced dancers, but also a place that can have up to 100 new dancers in an evening. A good caller can gauge his crowd and call dances appropriate for everyone in the crowd. If you're going there to call and expecting to call dance weekend-caliber dances because it's a well known place, you're basically ignoring a good chunk of the hall there and making them feel like they don't belong. Contra dancing being by and large a community dance means that you have to be aware of everyone's skill level and adjust to that. Perry
--- On Thu, 5/10/12, barb kirchner <barbkirch...@hotmail.com> wrote: From: barb kirchner <barbkirch...@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [Callers] mentorship To: call...@sharedweight.net List-Post: callers@lists.sharedweight.net Date: Thursday, May 10, 2012, 5:20 PM disagree. one thing i learned from my university years (besides some things about plants) was that it was CRITICAL to say things in various ways. i taught science majors one semester, non-science majors the next. non-majors were the most fun. you had to realize that every single person in the room came with a different agenda, a different background, a different expectation - and you have to say something that EVERYBODY can understand use IMMEDIATELY. if you are a good teacher, you are a good teacher for everybody. cheers - barb > Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 14:14:56 -0700 > From: mjerryfue...@yahoo.com > To: call...@sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Callers] mentorship > > Perry wrote: " I've danced to a few nationally-known callers who I don't > think are very good at all." Without mentioning names, what did or didn't > these nationally known callers do to make you feel they were not good??? > Perry wrote: "... most callers, whether they stick to local areas or whether > they are national are very good." This might confirm the suggestion that > calling is quite easy with practice. > Dancers at events with a "nationally known" caller will be quite skilled, > and the caller does not have worry about selecting dances appropriate to the > crowd's skill level, or changing their program to correlate with the crowd's > collective skill. > What my makes a caller good with a crowd of one skill level, might make that > same caller not so good with a crowd of a different skill level. For > example, I know of several callers whose dance collections contain solely > relatively straightforward dances--which they can teach extraordinarily well > to a crowd with many less experienced dancers--but an experienced crowd would > be quite bored. > Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217-239-5844. > Links to photos of many of my drawings and paintings are at > www.ArtComesFuerst.com > > --- On Thu, 5/10/12, Perry Shafran <ps...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: Perry Shafran <ps...@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Callers] mentorship > To: "Caller's discussion list" <call...@sharedweight.net> > Date: Thursday, May 10, 2012, 2:31 PM > > Ron, > > You pose a real excellent question. WHAT makes a "good" caller? Now if you > were to ask the dancers on the floor who their favorite callers are, they > generally list popular, well-known callers who travel a lot. But does this > mean that they are the "best"? Or that other lesser-known callers aren't any > good? > > I've heard a lot of local callers who I have a LOT of fun when they call. On > the other hand, I've danced to a few nationally-known callers who I don't > think are very good at all. As a matter of fact, most callers, whether they > stick to local areas or whether they are national are very good. > > My opinion is this: a real good caller is one who picks dances that are > appropriate for the crowd that he/she is calling for. They do their research > ahead of time: Will I be calling to mainly newbies? Mainly experienced > dancers? A mix? What percentage of each approximately? And then program > said dance with the appropriate mix of dances for the crowd that is expected > to be there. And also be flexible to change your program on the fly if the > unexpected shows up. > > Also - the ability to explain those dances well. It's tricky in mixed crowds > - you want to be just detailed enough so that the new dancers can pick up on > it but not so wordy so that the experienced dancers are getting antsy. A lot > of this depends on the crowd mix (experienced-to-newbie ratio). This also > means that a good caller KNOWS the dances he's calling inside and out. > (Though I've been known to call a dance that I picked up just that day, but > before I do so I make sure I understand the dance and how it flows.) For me, > one of the most important things is to emphasize the tricky parts without > spending an hour on explaining it - that makes a good caller. > > And then there's good caller-to-dancer relationships. By that I mean, you > also need to be likable to the crowd, personable. You're the party host. > Those that than treat their guests as welcome to the party. > > Of course things will go wrong often to most callers, but a good caller > handles those with style and grace and doesn't show frustration. "Never let > them see you sweat" - a good rule of thumb. > > There are probably more, but this note is getting lengthy and I can't think > of any more right now. It's an excellent question and conversation starter. > > Perry > > --- On Thu, 5/10/12, Ron T Blechner <contra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > From: Ron T Blechner <contra...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Callers] mentorship > To: "Caller's discussion list" <call...@sharedweight.net> > Date: Thursday, May 10, 2012, 3:12 PM > > I might suggest that there's a natural break-out topic: > "What makes a good caller? (both perspectives of caller, dancer, band, > and dance organizers all)" > > I've heard a *lot* of callers talk about the difference of being "a > caller" and "a really good caller", and while experience is a > necessary condition, it is not, I believe, sufficient. > > In dance, > Ron > > On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Michael Fuerst <mjerryfue...@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > Laurie: > > Your remarks don't contradict mine. You emphasized "FEEDBACK" and an > > individual's disposition to accept such. I suggested that calling takes > > "40-100 hours practice over 10- 50 dance events needed to experience the > > various things that might go wrong or that one might do wrong, while having > > more experienced callers nearby to counsel one through the mishaps." I > > certainly could/should have added that suggestions to aspiring callers can > > also come from dancers. In our context, "counsel" and "feedback" seem > > synonymous. But in any case, a caller unwilling to accept/ponder such > > counsel (feedback) from callers and dancers will not improve. > > Also you noted that some, after mentorship, classes, and support, still > > lack "the thing that callers make." Can you explain what to you the > > missing "thing" is? I suspect some of such persons either (1) need > > closer to 50 experiences to master the necessary skills, and/or (2) have > > been unlucky to have well-meaning, but less effective counselors > > Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217-239-5844 > > > > --- On Thu, 5/10/12, Laur <lc...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > From: Laur <lc...@yahoo.com> > > Subject: Re: [Callers] mentorship > > To: "Caller's discussion list" <call...@sharedweight.net> > > Date: Thursday, May 10, 2012, 12:28 AM > > > > Michael, > > > > Trust me, I (and I'm sure others) have seen callers go through mentorship, > > classes, support, etc. And - they do not have the thing that callers make. > > Callers that are serious want and need feedback, the community, the > > mentoring and again FEEDBACK. Those that are- seek and respond to this. > > Those are nots - not. They are into them and not into the rest. So the > > caution is - callers that aren't into the caller community feedback > > mentorship ... lose. and the community that has to dance to them, loses. > > > > Laurie P > > West MI > > ~ > > > > --- On Wed, 5/9/12, Michael Fuerst <mjerryfue...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >> From: Michael Fuerst <mjerryfue...@yahoo.com> > >> Subject: [Callers] mentorship > >> To: "Caller's discussion list" <call...@sharedweight.net> > >> Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 3:06 AM > >> Contra calling is a relatively easy > >> skill to learn--much easier than mastering fiddle-playing, > >> auto repair, child rearing or Photoshop. After getting > >> several hours of initial instruction in contra calling, the > >> challenge becomes getting 40-100 hours practice over 10- 50 > >> dance events needed to experience the various things that > >> might go wrong or that one might do wrong, while having more > >> experienced callers nearby to counsel one through the > >> mishaps. And of course workshops will intercept some of > >> the potential mishaps. > >> > >> Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL > >> 61801 217-239-5844 > >> > >> --- On Wed, 5/9/12, Rich Goss <richg...@comcast.net> > >> wrote: > >> > >> From: Rich Goss <richg...@comcast.net> > >> Subject: Re: [Callers] mentorship > >> To: "Caller's discussion list" <call...@sharedweight.net> > >> Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 12:55 AM > >> > >> I may have missed it, but I haven't seen William Watson's > >> excellent collection of caller resources. > >> > >> http://www.quiteapair.us/calling/ > >> > >> Rich > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Callers mailing list > >> call...@sharedweight.net > >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Callers mailing list > >> call...@sharedweight.net > >> http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Callers mailing list > > call...@sharedweight.net > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > > _______________________________________________ > > Callers mailing list > > call...@sharedweight.net > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > call...@sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > call...@sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > call...@sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list call...@sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/callers
