Jim, I think this approach is great for adding more dances with choice. ... but at some point, people want advanced dances and/or medleys, and limiting the move-set I don't find an acceptable compromise.
-Ron On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 7:22 PM, Jim Hemphill <[email protected]> wrote: > Proper Dance, gender free yet not too simple > A1 Neighbor allemande left 1 1/2 > 1st corners allemande right 1 1/2 > A2 Scoop your partner as you go by, star promenade then butterfly > 2nd corners swing in the center, then separate > B1 Partner balance and swing > B2 Take hands in a ring, balance and petranella > Couple 2 swing in the center, end facing up > > Dances can have variety and challenges without gender reference. In this > dance, as long as you make clear in the teaching that after the neighbor > allemande left 1 1/2 if you are facing in, you are a 1st corner so you > allemande right, if facing out you are a 2nd corner, get ready to be scooped > you can end the swings any way you want. > > Ron, you are certainly right that not all dances can be easily taught in > this manner, but in no way are all of these type of dances simple. I > struggled with translating a "choose your noun" for ladies or gents because > that is how I learned and think about the dance roles. The translation > process adds a layer of complexity for me. I am just offering a different > approach that works for me. > > Thanks > Jim > > > > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 3:40 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> RE: Dave: >> >> Clockwise / counterclockwise - too wordy, and some people have trouble >> with this regardless. >> >> Hey: What about on the left diagonal? Along the set? >> >> I also really don't like the blaming of the dance if it's not 100% >> intuitive. Plenty of dances flow great but have a counter-intuitive >> element. Restricting dances to those without counter-intuitive moves >> is basically saying, "Sorry, if we want to be genderfree, we need to >> put a cap on how difficult a dance is. Sorry genderfree dancers, you >> aren't allowed to dance too advanced." That's a big problem. >> >> Rollaways can *not* be handled from left to right - who does the >> rolling is not indicated at all! >> >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Dave Casserly >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Also with regard to Ron's questions, numbers 2 and 3 (who-leads-whom and >> > who-walks-forward) can be handled by using the terms "clockwise" and >> > "counterclockwise." As to 4 (who passes whom for a hey), I agree with >> > Bob >> > that if the dance is good, it should be obvious, but even if not, "pass >> > left >> > shoulders in the middle for a hey for four" can only be interpreted one >> > way, >> > so that fixes the issue of referring to roles. Roll-aways can be >> > handled >> > with "roll away from the left to the right" or "roll away from the right >> > to >> > the left." >> > >> > I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it is actually quite doable to >> > call a >> > dance without referring to roles at all, even without resorting to first >> > or >> > second corners. >> > >> > Perry asked for an example of a dance with global terminology used. >> > Here's >> > one (just picking a common, typical dance): >> > >> > Square Affair, by Becky Hill >> > >> > A1 Long Lines, 1st corners chain (or just say "chain" if you're dealing >> > with >> > experienced dancers and don't want to use the corners terminology) >> > A2 Balance and pull by partner, pull by neighbor, balance and pull by >> > partner, pull by neighbor >> > B1 New neighbors balance and swing >> > B2 Circle 3/4, partner swing >> > >> > Perry, you also mentioned that you are trying to figure out how global >> > terminology would work for proper dances. I have always called proper >> > dances using global terminology without even thinking about it. For >> > Chorus >> > Jig, for instance, why would you ever need to use the term "gent" or >> > "lady"? >> > Down the outside, back, down the middle, back and neighbor >> > around-the-waist >> > turn, 1s turn contra corners, 1s balance and swing. Nothing that any >> > particular role does that the other role isn't doing at the same time. >> > >> > On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bob Morgan via Callers >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> With regard to Ron's questions >> >> >> >> 1. Would be easily covered by 1st or 2nd corners walk forward to a wave >> >> >> >> 2. Again can be done with reference to corners >> >> >> >> 3. Not so familiar with these. >> >> >> >> 4. You usually only need an obvious first pass person so not an issue I >> >> think >> >> >> >> 5. If you're facing out you turn, if you're facing across you walk is >> >> how >> >> I call it anyway >> >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Andrea, how would you handle the following: >> >>> >> >>> 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip >> >>> to >> >>> Lambertville, et all? >> >>> >> >>> 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star? >> >>> >> >>> 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal >> >>> Pushers, >> >>> Jurassic Redheads, etc. >> >>> >> >>> 4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey. >> >>> >> >>> 5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate? >> >>> >> >>> 6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't >> >>> mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? >> >>> Rollaways? >> >>> >> >>> None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated. >> >>> >> >>> Ron >> >>> >> >>> On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers" >> >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at >> >>>> Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use >> >>>> of >> >>>> global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if >> >>>> used, >> >>>> everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only >> >>>> the most >> >>>> unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called. The addition >> >>>> of >> >>>> first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible >> >>>> for same >> >>>> role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without >> >>>> reference to >> >>>> gender. Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for >> >>>> example. It would have to be agreed that this refers to those >> >>>> standing in >> >>>> those positions at that moment. In ECD we use first and second >> >>>> corners to >> >>>> refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions. >> >>>> But >> >>>> since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this >> >>>> seems >> >>>> unhelpful. Simply corner positions works better. I'm glad some >> >>>> folks are >> >>>> trying it out at last. I had hoped for an opportunity myself before >> >>>> now. >> >>>> Cheers, >> >>>> Andrea >> >>>> >> >>>> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask >> >>>> >> >>>> On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers >> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment >> >>>> in >> >>>> gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St. >> >>>> Louis >> >>>> using gender free calling without telling anyone. The experiment >> >>>> was a >> >>>> great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings >> >>>> dance. >> >>>> At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several >> >>>> dancers, some >> >>>> were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or unusual >> >>>> about >> >>>> the dances or how I taught them. One person noticed that there were >> >>>> more >> >>>> dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 than usual. >> >>>> No one >> >>>> I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were gender free. >> >>>> >> >>>> It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, >> >>>> but >> >>>> it is certainly possible. Re-labeling the dancers is not the only >> >>>> way to >> >>>> call gender free. >> >>>> >> >>>> If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection >> >>>> of >> >>>> gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email, >> >>>> [email protected]. >> >>>> >> >>>> Thanks, >> >>>> Jim Hemphill >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Callers mailing list >> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Callers mailing list >> >>>> [email protected] >> >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Callers mailing list >> >>> [email protected] >> >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Callers mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > David Casserly >> > (cell) 781 258-2761 >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >
