If you want to redefine "corner" as a person, not a position... On Jun 2, 2015 10:41 AM, "Perry Shafran via Callers" < [email protected]> wrote:
> After thinking about this I think I am starting to agree with Andrea in > that corners (first & second) just might be the perfect term to use. In > ECD, where most dances are proper, the first corner is gent 1 and lady 2, > because in proper dances there are different genders on the diagonal. In > an improper dance (most contra dances), there are same genders on the > diagonal. So therefore the ladies would be in the first corner positions > (same positions as in a proper English dance), and the gents are the second > corners. In a swing, first corners end up on the right. I think by > thinking about it this way you could do any dance, easy to challenging, > with the corner terminology in place. Just substitute any incidence of > "gents" in your choreography with "second corner" and "ladies" with "first > corner". > > Perry > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Andrea Nettleton via Callers <[email protected]> > *To:* Michael Fuerst <[email protected]> > *Cc:* "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:31 AM > *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling > > Hey Michael, > I think you mean that those who began the dance as first corners, will > always end swings on the right, just as they are standing relative to their > partner in the hands four. > > The dance is obscure to the dancers only to the degree the caller is > unable to elucidate it. It may take effort for callers to learn to teach > as effectively this way, but that doesn't make it less clear. When I > called to the SFQCD, ninety percent of the dancers were men. Even with > bands and bare arms, so as clear an indication of role as they could > achieve, they struggled with who ends where after stuff. What if I could > have given them the tool of knowing their corners, and in addition, the > clear instruction to note carefully which hand they held when standing next > to their partner? That would always be their connector hand when standing > as a couple after swings, chains, and R&L thrus. The twofold active > attention might have served them far better than the arbitrary labels. > Understanding that the pattern of the dance depends on knowing your > geography makes sense. Adding into that the need to remember a label > doesn't improve the odds the geography will stick, at least it didn't > there. In my opinion, looking for a person is less reliable than knowing > your place in the dance. People mess up, but the place is always there. > > AN > > > Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > > > > On Jun 2, 2015, at 4:05 AM, Michael Fuerst via Callers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Consider this dance > > E.J.M.J.F. in Cincinnati Duple Improper Michael Fuerst > March, 1991 > > A1 Balance and swing neighbor. > > A2 Men allemande left 1 1/2 and swing partner. > > B1 Long lines forward and back. Women chain to neighbor. > > B2 Women allemande right (4). > 1/2 hey, neighbors start passing left shoulder, until > neighbors on the side they started the dance (8). > Neighbors pass left shoulders and turn sharply left along set to > meet new > neighbors (4). > > Using this thread's suggestions, I think this becomes (as long as dancers > understand that those starting as *second corners* always end the swing on > the right) > > E.J.M.J.F. in Cincinnati Duple Improper Michael Fuerst > March, 1991 > > A1 Balance and swing neighbor. > > A2 *First corners* allemande left 1 1/2 and swing partner. > > B1 Long lines forward and back. *Second corners* chain to neighbor. > > B2 *Second corners* allemande right (4). > 1/2 hey, neighbors start passing left shoulder, until > neighbors on the side they started the dance (8). > Neighbors pass left shoulders and turn sharply left along set to > meet new > neighbors (4) > > This makes the dance obscure to beginning and intermediate dancers. Seems > best to have names corresponding to the men's and women's roles, rather than > to have dancer's determine which corners they are at any point in the dance. > > > Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 > > > > On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:26 AM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Actually Alan, because we dance improper most frequently, and becket > almost as much, I think I really don't want the labels applied to people so > they stick. I'm just using the word corner the way Brooke and Chris use > diagonal. In contra, we already have a use for the word diagonal, meaning > the next pair along across the set to the right or left. The corner > reference we have is actually close to right, probably having grown out of > triple minor dances. Right diagonal is first corner, Left diagonal is > second. Make it fit in a hands four and you have pairs of corners along > opposite angles. It's a place not a person. Then I can write a dance > beginning with a second corner chain, and it will be those formerly > identified as gents, but will work totally fine. If the dance were proper, > you could still have a second diagonals chain and it would be one of each > 'role'. A direct transfer of the system to contra is not as useful as > adapting, IMHO. > Andrea > > Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > > On Jun 2, 2015, at 3:07 AM, Winston, Alan P. <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I'm not Andrea but as someone who's appreciated the value of global > calling since Chris and Brooke proselytized our West Coast English caller > self improvement group about it in 2000 and who regularly uses it even in > not gender free English as well as for gender free English I think I can > answer. > > The Heather and Rose style (which they didn't invent but have published > the most in) is designed for proper longways. Men's line is left file, > ladies line is right file. In a square or Becket formation gents place > are first diagonals, ladies are second diagonals. Corner is reserved for > contra corners and the immediate neighbor in a square. > > However, mainstream English gives us first corners (in a proper set, > first gent and second lady) and second corners (first lady and second > gent). If you apply that to a typical improper contra, as Andrea was > suggesting, the ladies are on the first corners, the gents on the second > corners. > > The answer to each of your questions about how she'd indicate what we > now do with gender is to substitute a corner reference. First corners make > a wave in the middle of the set. They back up and second corners come in. > > > You'd have to decide whether the same positional reference applies to > becket, where it would be the gents, or have the corner assignments apply > before you becketize, which would be my preference. > > Does that clear it up ? > > Alan > > > Sent from my iPad > > On Jun 1, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > Andrea, how would you handle the following: > 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to > Lambertville, et all? > 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star? > 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers, > Jurassic Redheads, etc. > 4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey. > 5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate? > 6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't > mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? Rollaways? > None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated. > Ron > On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers" < > [email protected]> wrote: > > In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at > Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of > global terminology for gender free contra. I would contend that if used, > everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances. Only the most > unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called. The addition of > first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible for same > role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without reference to > gender. Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for > example. It would have to be agreed that this refers to those standing in > those positions at that moment. In ECD we use first and second corners to > refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions. But > since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this seems > unhelpful. Simply corner positions works better. I'm glad some folks are > trying it out at last. I had hoped for an opportunity myself before now. > Cheers, > Andrea > > Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask > > On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers < > [email protected]> wrote: > > The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment > in gender free calling. Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis > using gender free calling without telling anyone. The experiment was a > great success. I received lots of positive feedback on the evenings > dance. At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several > dancers, some were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or > unusual about the dances or how I taught them. One person noticed that > there were more dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 > than usual. No one I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were > gender free. > > It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, but it > is certainly possible. Re-labeling the dancers is not the only way to call > gender free. > > If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection of > gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email, > [email protected]. > > Thanks, > Jim Hemphill > > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >
