Thank you for articulating these thought so clearly.

I wonder if Tony Barrand might have some idea about the origins from the Morris 
and longsword perspective.

Patricia 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 24, 2015, at 5:05 PM, Alan Winston via Callers 
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> I think apologizing for unintentionally offending is good but I don't think 
> you have to take on all of what your correspondent is offended over.  
> 
> Your correspondent made up the idea that it's so named because of the idea 
> that Romani women are oversexualized.
> 
>  Here's my take on this:
> 
> - the use of the term "Gypsy" is inherently offensive to some of the people 
> to whom it refers in just the way the use of the term "Indian" is inherently 
> offensive to some Native Americans.  It's a name they don't accept (a) 
> because it incorrectly ascribes an incorrect geographical origin to them 
> (Egyptian for Gypsies, India (well, East Indies) for Indians) and (b) was 
> assigned to them by outsiders and became the terms used for them by people 
> who wanted to move them along / kill them.   (Although the term the Nazis 
> used, Zigeuner, derives from a Greek root meaning "untouchable" rather than 
> "Egyptian", according to the US Holocaust Museum website.)
> 
> - The term "Indian File" for walking in a line, one after another, doesn't 
> suggest anything particularly derogatory about Native Americans; I think it's 
> an observation or speculation that the way East Coast (forest-dwelling) 
> indigenous people walked through forests on minimal trails was in single 
> file.  We can point out that white society thinks there are many admirable 
> things about native peoples - the whole "Indian Guides" thing shows that - 
> and that the use of the world "Indian" in that isn't intended to be 
> offensive, etc, etc, and yet the obviously right thing to do was to start 
> saying "single file" instead, because the benefits of not pointlessly 
> offending people vastly outweighed the benefits of continuing to use a 
> non-descriptive term.  It's virtually never effective and rarely kind to tell 
> people they shouldn't be offended.
> 
> - By me, the same logic suggests that we should stop calling the figure 
> gypsy.  We can go at length into why it's not named after Gypsies, why 
> "Gypsy" is a superset name that includes Rom and other traveling people, some 
> of whom don't mind it, the use of gypsy to mean "traveler" (from which dance 
> gypsy, Gypsy moth, etc, derive), the admiring use of gypsy to mean free 
> spirit ("gypsy in my soul"), etc, but none of that actually matters in this 
> context.  What actual benefit do we derive from calling it "gypsy", other 
> than the sunk cost of having a community of people who know it by that name?  
> It's not descriptive.  (It is evocative and we have a bunch of dances with 
> "gypsy" in the name; not sure what to do about those.)
> 
> (I had been thinking that it would be very difficult to get a universal 
> change of name for the figure in the absence of a Callerlab for Contra, but 
> Yoyo's post (where he says he'll  just drop the name and prompt by which 
> shoulder you go around) opened my eyes to the possibility of effective 
> individual action by callers; you don't need universal agreement on a new 
> name.  That does open the door to a dancer on the floor saying "you mean 
> gypsy?" but I     guess you can say "that name is offensive to some people".) 
>  I'm going to have to think more about this for my own practice as an English 
> and a contra caller.
> 
> - I'm personally interested in the history of things and how they got their 
> names, and I'm convinced that gypsy in contra was picked up from gypsy in 
> English which was picked up from "whole-gyp" and "half-gyp" in Morris and 
> that there's not necessarily any relationship of the name to any group of 
> people in origin, and I do not believe that in  naming the figure anybody was 
> saying anything about the stereotypical characteristics of any people.  I 
> really, with all the intellectual honesty I have available, don't believe 
> that.  (And I've heard different stereotypical characteristics assumed to be 
> the origin - sexuality, untrustworthiness, tendency to do non-touching 
> dances, so I think these are all just-so stories, ex post facto 
> rationalizations.)  I don't think this blameless origin is a reason to keep 
> the name, and I know it's absolutely ineffective to point out the blameless 
> origin to somebody who's offended.
> 
> That's the end of my argument, but I have more thoughts.
> 
> - This is different from people who are offended by callers who sexualize the 
> figure, which they could do whatever it's called.  I don't mind gypsy 
> meltdowns, but  I find "until you just can't stand it anymore" kinda tedious; 
> let's just walk around each other maintaining a comfortable level of eye 
> contact until the music tells us to swing, how about that?)  (And I think 
> sexualizing things and telling dancers how they're supposed to feel, 
> especially if it's sexual, is just getting more and more passe as different 
> people of different (and no) sexual orientation are dancing on different 
> sides of the set.  We're all people, we're all dancing together, that's 
> enough.)
> 
> - I *like* the figure, and I really like the dance providing a safe space to 
> look at somebody else's face and look them in the eye without it necessarily 
> signaling anything.  In the general world meeting people's eyes can carry a 
> lot of unintended freight; I think it's great to have a place where you can 
> just do it as part of the dance.  Ideally a connection is established, but 
> there are all kinds of connections and they're not necessarily sexual.  
> (Which is not to say that I haven't gotten stirred up, even in meltdown-free, 
> far-apart English dance gypsies, but that's way different from the caller 
> telling everybody they're supposed to.)
> 
> -- Alan
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

Reply via email to