On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 7:07 PM, kangaroo <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Jul 26, 2:11 pm, Chamnap Keo <[email protected]> wrote: > > To say that Pol Pot, Hun Sen, Sihanouk, Sam Rainsy, and every Khmer > > politicians are all the same and hopeless is like saying every student > who > > has ever applied and finished a university, from Colombia, Harvard, MIT, > > Princeton, Cambridge, Oxford, and all the rest are all the same. > > Please explain it why you are saying what you are saying in this above > paragraph. > I explained my view clearly to you why I was saying it. > Actually, Pol Pot Hun Sen, Sihanouk, Sam Rainsy are no comparison to > those educated scholars from thsoe American school. I am shaking my > head here. > > Sure, I explain again. The Khmer politicians are in a class of their own, no doubt I'll give you that. However, I am not comparing them to the scholars from those American and British schools above. It was however, an analogy. The message of that analogy is that experience and environment shape character and reasons - it was not that Sen, or Rainsy are on par with any of those scholars... Shake my head here too if that was what you thought. > > > Each person is different not only in quantity of reasons, but quality of > > thoughts. The thoughts are shaped by history and philosophy and > education. > > > > Each people are different. And you are right. > However, those individuals that mentioned in my writing have done > something already. We already know what they are. So we just judge > them with their ability especially when they are leaders of a nation. > > I am afraid we don't all know as you do. Maybe you are friends with all three or all the Khmer politicians there are and will ever be in Cambodia. But I, speaking for myself, I have seen Sen order crackdown, led a coup, allowed 99 years of concessions, destroy forest in logging, rivers in sand dredging and as I understand it, he was a member of the Khmer Rough commander. But that is past, we forgive right? But today, who allow for mass evictions of Cambodians? CPP and Sen friends. This I know. As for former King Norodom, I believed he managed his best to steer Cambodia off the cold war, but in the end, the results was still disastrous. A big miscalculations? Maybe if his pride was not too big he could have let Lon Nol take over the country and not empower the Khmer Rough, who in his own word are "puppets" of Hanoi, to take revenge. He was a tool, chun chanh bok ke, outcheated and outmaneuver. We can play what if game, the result would most likely be the same, Lon Nol could not stand Hanoi using Cambodian soil as bases, his demand and position would have resulted in full out war with Vietnam - Cambodians would still die and the country will also be invaded. So, is Sihanouk a bad person for making those steps? Let the scholars debate that with every aspect of history examine. Enough said about an old man who can do no more good for Cambodia. > > What is Hun Sen's background and philosophy? He is an honorary PhD of > Hanoi, > > a student of communism, brutality, dictatorship and learned from his > > experience gain through power of suppression tactics and instilling fear > > and subservience from his subordinates - not respect because of his > > character. > > > > So you are telling us that Hun Sen cannot be a great person because he > has no great education. > Am I reading it right? > All of those people have done something in Cambodian politics. You see > them before your eyes. > They are not great leaders. They are more of the same as to be > corrupted with impunity. > > Did I say he has no education? He did have a PhD did he not? Surely he was well bred and well educated in the politics from Vietnam. He is a strategist, renown by many people. His divide and conquer techniques, speaking ability, and planning has been decisive. He has taken control of all major institutions in Cambodia, never mind that the principles of "democracy" that he sells to donor country every year prohibits such authoritarianism. And by what measure are defining a great person? If achievements is your scale, Sen has already outdone any of your expectations of him - education or no education. My definition of a great person is a empathic person, who has shown compassion for others; has spoken for and sacrificed in the name of human dignity, justice, equality and respect for human freedom - so far, all Sen's great achievements have been detrimental to all of those - i.e massive evictions, poor quality education for youths ( this is a human rights issue too), illegal loggings, illegal dredging, uncontrolled border and immigrations that put tremendous stress on resources. Land grabbing, and destruction of natural resources, yes. > > > What about other potentials such as Rainsy? Rainsy was educated in > France, > > in western thoughts of ethics and philosophy of human rights, dignity and > > equality of men. His experience and travel throughout the world of > > democratic country allowed him to examine and understand the underlying > > process of democracy, human dignity and human worth to equal protection, > > freedom and pursuant of happiness and life. Did not spend his time making > > history and desensitizing himself to brutal crackdowns and killing of > > opponents and dissenting opinions. > > > > Tell us about Educated Sam Rainsy. What has he done so far for > Cambodia? > What has he brought his crusade to earn his support from the Cambodian > people? > Here is my view of Sam Rainsy. He is the same person as any others > have come before us. > He is still embracing impunity. > He is still corrupted. > So Sam Rainsy is not different from any other leaders that we have > seen. > > I am not here to campaign or gloss for Rainsy. What I know, and I what I seen, is that Rainsy has not stolen people's land, make wealth and family connections that lead to massive stripping of Cambodia's natural resources, not involved in human trafficking - but fights against it with his "crusuaders" such as Sochua and the ngos that that party has allied with. Brought attention to donor countries about the on going corruption, and has spoken vehemently against the opaque nature of border delimitation. Now since you know all politicians in Cambodia, you can tell us Rainsy's list of impunity and suppression against the people of Cambodia. May I ask also, if Rainsy and all the other leaders of Cambodia are no good, why haven't you, the person who have seen through all their impunity, present yourself as the great alternative to the Cambodian people? > > > So are they all the same? Ask a person who knows nothing about human > > character and experience, but has only been able to experience in his > life > > one dug-in world, a well of ignorance and misery - he will surely tell > you > > yes! They're all the same! > Thank you > > In the end, I had only presented one theme and message for our conversation, that is not all Cambodian politicians are the same. This was the initial point you raised, and this was the point I rebutted against. You have agreed now, that they're certainly not all the same. My point is finish. Thank you. p.s. If you wish to present your next rebuttal, please offer us an alternative "Cambodian leader" we can trust and is not the same. I am hoping, since that you have seen through all these corrupt politicians, you may present yourself as an alternative we can believe in? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Cambodia Discussion (CAMDISC) - www.cambodia.org" group. This is an unmoderated forum. Please refrain from using foul language. Thank you for your understanding. Peace among us and in Cambodia. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/camdisc Learn more - http://www.cambodia.org
