I have some interest.  I would also have some
interest in a union, or, perhaps better, a guild.

A few thoughts.

o What's wrong with making a profit?  It is entirely
   OK for a profit-making enterprise to distribute its
   profits entirely to its owners.  And, curiously, it's
   also OK for a non-profit to make money - but NOT to
   distribute profits.  It is also a bit of a hurdle
   to achieve 501(c)(3) status.  And there are more
   legal protections for staff at a for-profit than
   at a non-profit (been there, done that, have the
   t-shirt).

o I imagine that some of the contributors to this list
   are in fact principals in organizations such as you
   suggest.  Perhaps some of these folk would help
   avoid re-inventing the wheel.

o What strikes me as the value proposition for a customer,
   for either a software vendor or a union/guild, is that
   SOMEBODY who actually knows something about creating
   software value may be identified as the responsible
   party to create software value.  Sorta like if my pipes
   break, I can call either a plumbing firm or the plumbers'
   union to get a presumably knowledgeable person to fix
   them.  I don't have to know plumbing.  I can account
   this person (or persons) responsible.

   BTW, I probably won't be asking things like, "How
   productive is this plumber or that one?"  I will be
   asking things like, "What are my options and how much
   might I expect each to cost?"  For some jobs, I might
   be told, "Dunno, have to get in there and look.  Had
   one like that cost $N.  Had another cost $100N.  My
   time to look will run you $X."

   Could I be cheated?  Sure.  Twice by the same guy?
   Maybe not.

o A consequence of such a value proposition is that the
   firm or union has to be able to identify an individual
   or group as having sufficient ability to undertake a
   particular assignment.  This may be accomplished through
   a number of means from references (or examination)
   verifying existing abilities to explicit training,
   and must include some verification of the ability to
   perform necessary interaction as well as design/coding.
   However accomplished, the identification of competence
   and competencies is a necessity of doing business,
   and harder to provide for than immediately apparent.

o It's obvious from many posts on this list that often
   the biggest problem in project management is, uh,
   Project Management.  The PMI view of a project is a
   pretty good fit for building aircraft carriers and other
   large artifacts made out of cut metal.  It is not such a
   good fit for the R&D phase of discovering and dealing
   with unknowns, which is the essence of software development.
   A clear benefit of contracting out software development
   (when it is not one of a firm's core competencies) is that
   the associated PM is abstracted to communication with
   the vendor.  If the vendor is an XP shop, the PM is handled
   integral with the development and is well-directed and
   accurate, and far better than the customer could ever
   achieve with traditional methods.  An enterprise such as
   you suggest would have this to offer as a value-add.

LB


Victor wrote:
> There has been some ranting in this forum about the economic situation of
> software services.
> Is there anything we can actually do about it?
> 
> The software services industry is making quite a bundle out of us.  If you
> cannot beat them, join them.  I would like to see a show of hands.  How many
> people would be ready to actively create/join an employee owned
> not-for-profit corporation. The earnings would be partially invested in
> expansion, partially in benefits, and what is left distributed to the
> membership according to some criteria to be developed.
> 
> We would need a CEO, a CFO, a good lawyer, and an excelent marketing person.
> The opertion would be based as much as possible on XP principles, like
> simplicity, opennes, and cooperation.
> 
> It will be a learning experience, and we will make errors, but we will not
> be the first ones, and we know that it can be done.
> 
> Because this is a first call, it's purposly generic.  The details will be
> elaborated by those interested in participating.
> 
> At this point in time I am only interested in finding out the measure of
> interest in following up with the idea.  If there is enough interest, we can
> then discuss the details.  Yet, I would like to stress that one of the
> central conditions of success is to find a good marketing person that's
> comfortable with the idea.  As a population (with a few notable exceptions),
> we developers are known for not being especially good in marketing, or as
> entrepeneurs. So, this is an aspect that has to be taken very seriously.
> 
> Victor



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