Hi James,
My previous message on this matter remains unnoticed, but I also suggested a 
very simple solution to the data fraud: the crystallographers should submit to 
PDB  partially processed data, like unmerged partial reflections. These files 
are much smaller than the images, and only a few people in the world are 
capable to forge them. This simple solution would kill any attempt to fabricate 
crystallographic data. 

Alex


On Apr 3, 2012, at 7:11 AM, James Whisstock wrote:

> Hi
> 
> I was thinking about the last statement in the Acta editorial  - "It is 
> important to note, however, that in neither of these cases was a single frame 
> of data collected. Not one.".  This brought me back to the images..  
> 
> To date there is no "global" acceptance that original diffractiom images must 
> be deposited (though I personally think there should be).  Many of the 
> arguments around this issue relate to the time and space required to house 
> such data.  However (and apologies if this has already been raised and I have 
> missed it), if our sole intent is to ascertain that there's no trouble at 
> t'mill then deposition of a modest wedge of data and / or a 0 and 90, while 
> not ideal, may be sufficient to provide a decent additional check and 
> balance, particularly if such images, headers etc were automatically analysed 
> as part of the already excellent validation tools in development.  
> 
> I'm sure there are a number of clever ways (that could be unadvertised or 
> kept confidential to the pdb) that could be used to check off sufficient 
> variables within such data such that it should (?) be very difficult to 
> falsify images without triggering alarm bells.
> 
> Of course this would probably then drive those that are truly bonkers to 
> attempt to fabricate realistically noisy false diffraction images, however I 
> would hope that such a scheme might make things just a little more difficult 
> for those with fraudulent intent, particularly if no one (apart from the 
> developers) knows precisely how and what the checking software checks!
> 
> While it seems sad that it's come to this cell biologists and biochemists 
> have had to deal with more and more sophisticated versions of the 
> "photoshopped western" for years.  Accordingly, most high profile journals 
> run figures through commercial software that does a reasonable job of 
> detection of such issues.
> 
> J
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 03/04/2012, at 11:10 PM, Dyda <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
>> I think that to review a paper containing a structure derived from
>> crystallographic data should indeed involve the referee having access
>> to coordinates and to the electron density. Without this access it
>> is not possible to judge the quality and very often even the 
>> soundness of statements in the paper.
>> 
>> I think the argument that this may give a competitive advantage
>> to the referee who him or herself maybe working on the same thing
>> should be mute, as I thought article refereeing was supposed to
>> be a confidential process. Breaching this would be a serious 
>> ethical violation. In my experience, before agreeing to review,
>> we see the abstract, I was always thought that I was supposed to
>> decline if there is a potential conflict with my own work. 
>> Perhaps naively, but I always assumed that everyone acts like this.
>> 
>> Unfortunately however, there is another serious issue.
>> 
>> After a very troubling experience with a paper I reviewed, I discussed
>> this issue with journal editors. What they said was that they already
>> have a hell of time to find people who agree to referee, by raising the
>> task level (asking refs to look at coords and density) they feared
>> that no one would agree.  Actually, perhaps many have  noticed the  
>> large number  of 5 liner referee reports saying really not much about a
>> full length research article. People simply don't have the time to
>> put the effort in. So I am not  sure how realistic is to ask even more,
>> for something that at some level, is pro bono work.
>> 
>> 
>> Fred
>> *******************************************************************************
>> Fred Dyda, Ph.D.                       Phone:301-402-4496
>> Laboratory of Molecular Biology        Fax: 301-496-0201
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> 

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