Paul, can you put that document up somewhere? It would be an interesting read.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2025, at 07:12, Paul Koning via cctalk <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 15, 2025, at 7:14 PM, Doug Jackson via cctalk <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Ethernet also got *way* more market traction, because it was
>> infinitely more survivable.
>> 
>> One of my early jobs was managing a Token Ring network, and we spent our
>> days running around a 13 floor building, chasing machines where people had
>> kicked connectors out of walls, just enough to stop data, but not enough to
>> make the MAU do the self isolation.  We had a piece of software called the
>> Cabletron TR Manager - that monitored the ring for beaconing, and let us
>> know the upstream node that detected the break.  Then we would consult our
>> *detailed* notes on what cards were installed where, so we could find the
>> culprit that was broken.  Without the notes, we would have had zero chance.
> 
> FDDI was somewhat better.  It's not all that well known, but IBM (802.5) 
> token ring and FDDI have essentially nothing in common.  At DEC when we were 
> working on its development we liked to say that the only things in common are 
> "token" and "ring".  Actually, FDDI is in a sense an evolution of 802.4, of 
> all things.
> 
> I also remember while there kicking around the notion that we could take the 
> FDDI signaling scheme (4b/5b code) and use it to send Ethernet packets.  That 
> worked quite well and the rest is history...
> 
>> 
>> Heady days.
>> 
>> I suggested to the network manager at the time that we could transition
>> from TR to Ethernet (everything was wired with Cat3 Shielded cable - but he
>> didn't want to, because "Ethernet had collisions" - that was when I
>> discovered that everybody has limitations that something breaks their
>> thinking.  After a while I convinced him to transition one of the Cabletron
>> cards to Ethernet, and do a test on a 32 workstation card - Suffice to say
>> that those 32 machines never had an issue, and eventually, all 800 machines
>> across two rings were transitioned to 100Mb Ethernet.
> 
> Around that time, IBM put out a marketing document that pretended to show why 
> token ring was better than Ethernet.  The DECnet architecture group (where I 
> worked at the time) created a paragraph by paragraph rebuttal to that and 
> published it as a joint DEC/3Com document.  I still have it: "The 
> Digital/3Com Guide to IBM document # GG22-9422-0" (DEC document 
> EE-EA345-42-001).  It doesn't seem to be online, Google has never heard of 
> it, nor the IBM document it rebuts.  As I recall, Bill Hawe was the lead 
> author of that work; I wrote some bits and pieces for it but I don't remember 
> the details.
> 
>    paul

Reply via email to