Ok, so there basically isn't a truly legit and ethical way to run it as a
hobbyist. I have seen the PAKs on ebay and was pondering one.
I have no plans for doing anything remotely commercial on any of the
machines I have, and I am not planning a server farm either.
Just a single machine for my own educational/fun purpose. But I totally
understand what you are saying.

- Peter

On Thu, Nov 27, 2025 at 12:31 PM Warner Losh via cctalk <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Even VMS 4 has license requirements. They just aren't enforced so people
> run it. The copyright hasn't run yet, though. Some people think it's ok,
> others do not. Maybe it's fair use for research purposes, maybe not.
>
> You can buy a PAK of ebay, or find bootleg PAKs online. That will let you
> run the system. One can make a super weak case it's for education or
> research purposes if the use is hobbiest in nature. Even that weak excuse
> is out the window if you do anything commercial with it. Copyright law,
> upon which licensing is based does have some exceptions, but they are quite
> narrow and require competent legal advise to utilize. Especially since you
> may be circumventing a protection device which has narrower exceptions than
> plain fair use. The general consensus here and other dec related groups is
> relying on such exceptions is too risky and it's morally wrong.
>
> But it's rather akin to finding car keys and taking the car they fit  for a
> ride. Sure, the car's owner hasn't been by in a decade or more. But
> ownership hasn't lapsed and you are driving soneone else's property. There
> are exceptions here too: if you needed to move it to protect it, for
> example, you could. But you couldn't drive it cross country to do that.
> Again, the exceptions are quite narrow and require competent legal advice.
> Also, this is at best a weak analogy.
>
> So if you want to be completely legit, that's hard because you can't find
> someone to take your money to transfer the license that backs the PAKs.
>
> It's effectively abandonware. The law doesn't give you a pass on that.
> Enforcement actions are always a risk if you go down this path. The works
> are owned, and we even know who the owners are, so they don't qualify even
> as orphan works. And that's not to mention the ethical aspect.
>
> Warner
>
> On Thu, Nov 27, 2025, 9:52 AM Wayne S via cctalk <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > V5 introduced the license manager so anything after VMS V4.7 usually
> > required a license PAK.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Nov 27, 2025, at 08:45, Peter Ekstrom via cctalk <
> > [email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, started playing with the SIMH vax8600 simulator and OpenVMS 7.3
> > > Hobbyist.
> > > I know they discontinued the hobbyist license program years ago, but
> does
> > > one actually need a license to run it? Or would an older version like
> 5.x
> > > or something be better? The OpenVMS community license is only for
> Alpha,
> > > Itanium and some x86_64 architectures so I'm sure that wouldn't work
> in a
> > > simulated VAX?
> > >
> > > - Peter
> >
>

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