Hi Swift, > On Feb 2, 2021, at 15:52, Swift Griggs <swiftgri...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Feb 2021, Chase via cdesktopenv-devel wrote: >> Personally, I think that your time would be used better if you helped us >> test and fix any issues with the AIX and HPUX port. > > I have access to POWER hardware but only Power7 and older stuff (I have some > POWER6 and RS/6000 PPC hardware too). However, I have the full suite of AIX > available. I could try a test build. Do you know if it'd require gcc or xlC? > I might also be able to host a POWER box for us to use online. It would > probably make sense to use something old like 4.3, 5.1, 5.3, or 6.1. Binary > compatibility would insure it'd run on 7.x and you'd still cover most of the > hobbyists who are on 6.1 and earlier. Just my $0.02. Let me know your > thoughts, Chase.
Thank you for this very generous offer. I think for C++ ABI compatibility and other reasons, it is vastly preferable to use native compilers so long as they are ISO compliant and not the K&R limited ones that are sometimes bundled for relinking the kernel, etc. >> These haven't been tested in possibly decades and at least for the HPUX >> port, I have strongly considered just removing it from the repo > > I support HPUX (and pretty much all the legacy Unixen) and on both platforms > (PA-RISC and Itanium). I don't know if you know this, but fairly recently > Qemu has been able to run HPUX (PA-RISC / HP9000 only). I think I have images > for 10.20 and 11.11 both (and I can share them or host them). I could > probably create one for 11.31, (HP9k) also, if it doesn't crash the emulator. > I know 11.11 runs great and it has binary compat with newer versions also. > > The problem is that getting a good compiler on HPUX is difficult. Only gcc is > really an option because the HP C compiler is licensed-only and I know of no > way around that (gcc for PA-RISC ISA is no-bueno, too - very slow but might > work, it'd probably be gcc295 or gcc3). HPE still occasionally sells a copy, > and it's one of the few things I haven't collected a license for over the > years. If anyone else can help here, let me know. > > I would be happy to setup an emulated HP box on a static IP so we could give > it shot. I could pull it down and try to get a build going then get you guys > involved if that would help? Unfortunately, I don’t believe supporting these platforms is going to be a CDE project priority in the future, but my aim is eventually to get some semblance of the original Open Group CDE release running on them. If it wouldn’t be too much trouble, could you collect the following information for these systems: - What release of X11 the vendor based their proprietary server upon (e.g., X11R6.5, etc.) CDE 2.1.30 was designed to work in conjunction with Motif 2.1.30 and X11R6.2 or later, mostly for the latter’s Xprint support. - Is the Xprint extension supported? (I might patch support for Xprint out if enough historical systems are lacking it) - What release of CDE and Motif, if any, is bundled by the vendor? For reasons that are not quite clear to me, many vendors seem to still be shipping CDE/Motif 1.x, which is the main reason I am interested in porting CDE. >> it's death date is 2025 > > That is EOL for 11iv3, which came out in 2010 or 2011. They've just kept > issuing patches for it. I can't believe it's even gone this long, but HP was > a hot mess and HPE is probably going to be even worse. Time will tell. That seems to be the common practice, even with UnixWare. Provided enough clients keep paying for support contracts, they’ll support the last release indefinitely. >> and even the linux kernel guys have orphaned support for itanium, i.e. > > That's okay. Linux never figured out EPIC. If you install Linux on an > Itanium, make sure to put a layer of paint on the room you are in so you can > entertain yourself by watching it dry before the install finishes. It's not > just bad, it's downright awful. SGI had to load their Altix machines to the > hilt with CPU just to get any type of decent performance out of them. Maybe > the EPIC ISA is "epic" for someone, but Linux ain't that someone (I hear it's > good for OpenVMS *shrug* ... ok-cool.). HPUX runs pretty mediocre on it, but > it's not the oh-my-gosh-this-thing-is-so-slow-it-is-broken experience you > have with Linux. I would advise anyone interested to not waste their time. IMO, I do not see why Linux support for these systems is pertinent to whether CDE supports them unless the only way to run CDE would be on Linux. >> the only architecture it will run on after March of this year (HP9000 is >> slated for EOL then). > > Since the initial burns on Itanium from Intel themselves and then Oracle, > even HP(E) has been a bit gunshy about the Itanium. I don't have any numbers > to prove it, but I suspect many of the last 12 years they have sold more > HP9000 hardware than Integrity hardware based on the "Itanic". They > definitely seem to have sold more HP9k Superdomes than I2 Superdomes, all > total. > > I've fiddled with Unix boxes since around '92 and the other thing I'd point > out is that all the nice workstation hardware is HP9000, with most of the > Integrity stuff being server-based. Of course, that was the zeitgeist of the > times, real hardware Unix workstations were pretty well a losing proposition > by 2003 when the Itanium was "ready". > > However, as a hobbyist, I can tell you that the HP9000 systems are much more > appealing and cool to the little guy than any Itanium server junk. If anyone > is going to update CDE on a HPUX box, it'll probably be a cute old Visualize > system or a 735 workstation, not a loud nasty RX server slab. > > Let me/us-on-the-list know if there is some hardware/OS platform that's hard > for you to test. I can at least try to find a match for you. I would, of > course, volunteer it for free as long as makes sense. I know we've talked > about some of this before, but the more specific you can be, the more I'm > likely to be able to help. > > I'm a C coder, but I'm weaker than you guys and I don't have the time to dig > in and do much dev, but sysadmin & network stuff is easy for me. > > -Swift > _______________________________________________ > cdesktopenv-devel mailing list > cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel Thanks, Lev _______________________________________________ cdesktopenv-devel mailing list cdesktopenv-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/cdesktopenv-devel
