I agree with you completely and I should not have called you a moron.
There's no excuse for that no matter how smart I am. I'm not all that
smart anyhow! :) I just get things done. Anyhow, I would like to
apologize to Tim Bass for my Rudness. Sorry Tim!
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Bass [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: August 18, 2001 1:22 PM
To: Joerg Schilling; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Help with spam mail - we are being spammed by the debian
list
Joerg makes the presumption that when automated lists do not work as
planned, his appoach is to insult and frail the user and he does not
consider that automated lists fail for many reasons.
I've subscribed and unsubscribed to many lists over the past
10 years on the network. Most list servers, in the past, allowed the
user to query the listserver with a 'who' command that would allow users
to see how an old email address might be listing in the listserver
database.
Due to spammers mining lists for email address, many of
these features were stopped. The normal result is that
when the user gets a 'not found here' messages, they simply send a note
to the listmanager and the listmanager fixes it.
I tried this numerous times over the past two years and
never got any reply or results.
The larger lesson to be learned, in my opinion, is that no matter how
great of a programmer you are or how fluent you ability to decode
bits-and-bytes, the world is full of
human processes. There is no usefulness, even you are
a technical expert, to call people degrading names and
to resort to personal attacks with the system is not working.
I'm very please to be FINALLY off this list, after many years, and at
least 2 of trying to get off! This is a great project and I think the
folks in CDWRITE have done a great job. However, there are lessons to be
learned in how to communicate with people over the net. I suggest that
you should not send any insult in email that you would
not do face-to-face. It is quite childish to set securely in
a seat in front of a screen/keyboard and bomb them with
notes calling them names. This is much more serious,
Joerg Shilling, than the difficulties of not being able to
get past a broken automated process.
I do not find nearly the troubling position of the problems with the
listserver process that the rapid fire insults from technical staff.
When someone begs to be removed from a listserver because the listserver
is not working or the listserver admin is not responding, a more
civilized approach is to be helpful, rather than insultful and mean.
Most people I know would never do this face-to-face, do not do it over
email.
If Joerg Schilling had the kindness of heart to review the
URL of the person making the request, he would have
easily seen that that person has been using listservers
for many, many years. Instead, he resorts to name calling,
insults, threats, warnings, and hatemail. All of this
could have been solved without the insults.
I had a very high opinion of the folks who work on
CDWRITE. However, I'm sorry to say that my opinion
of the 'person's heart' behind the technology, is much
less impressive. Heart is much more important and
becomes more important as technology continues to
dominate our societies.
Finest Regards, Tim
www.silkroad.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joerg Schilling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2001 2:41 PM
Subject: Re: Help with spam mail - we are being spammed by the debian
list
> >From: Kenneth McLean <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >The problem is typical with mailing lists. You subscribe from e.g.
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED], BUT this is generic, the software crosschecks
> >this with your actual origin, i.e. [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> >and=20 thinks you are trying to fake an unsubscribe and disallows
> >it.=20
>
> >Or there is some change in the listserver and mail to an old name
> >still gets to a machine, but mail originating from the machine claims
> >it is from a different place.
>
> As somebody already tried to remove me from this list using a fake
> mail, I know that the list sends a mail to the target mail address. If
> you reply this mail (which contains a random number) you are removed
> from the list. If somebody tries to fake mail, he will not get this
> mail and thus cannot remove somebody else.
>
> J�rg
>
> EMail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) J�rg Schilling D-13353
Berlin
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (uni) If you don't have iso-8859-1
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) chars I am J"org Schilling
> URL: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/usr/schilling
ftp://ftp.fokus.gmd.de/pub/unix
>
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