> >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:19:30 -0700 >From: "Carlson, Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: For those of you without a CS Degree >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Actually, I think a CS degree would be inappropriate for most CF development >work. I have a business degree in Computer Information Systems, which I >believe is more valuable for developing the majority of web-based >applications. Here are some general impressions I recall among various >curriculums (when I was in college, anyway ...): > >CS: 3 calculus courses, 3 physics courses, compiler design theory > >CIS: C, COBOL, Algebra, Discrete Math, Public Speaking, Systems Analysis, >Systems Design, Database design, Organizational behavior > >EE: Fortran Well, I can say that in my CS curriculum, I had Discrete Math, Systems Analysis, Systems Design, Database Design, 2 calculus courses, 2 physics courses, and a compiler design class. The calculus and physics courses were 4 credits instead of the standard 3. It seems to encompass just about everything from your CS and CIS curriculums. My one mistake was that I could have gotten a math minor by fitting in two more math classes. The year after I graduated my 'track' was changed to the CS Honors program and they created a simplier version of it. In my experience CIS (or MIS, Management Information Systems) people have been useless for programming because the focus of the curriculums is more on management than programming. It sounds like your alma matter may have switched the two. :smile: Either that or mine did. >Of course, there are many more differences, and things have certainly >changed somewhat since I was in college (although Hey! I'm not that old ...) >but my overall sense is this: > >CS is more geared to the embedded-logic crowd - CS folks often work with >Electrical Engineers on such projects. No systems analysis or design >classes required. In other words, not end-user oriented. I'm sure many CS >folks have such skills, but they weren't provided by the required >coursework. I took my schools one web development course. I was the programmer among graphic designers. I got a 98 on the first test. Next highest grade was a 50. Of course, my systems design class had nothing to do with interface design. It was about designing microchips. I designed my very own RISC processor. >CIS is geared towards business application developers, who will probably >never need calculus to do their work. The ability to think in terms of >large-scale, interconnected applications is emphasized. Also emphasized is >the ability to work closely with users, usually across multiple groups, each >with their own agenda (sound familiar?) I suppose it depends on the curriculum. Although, in my experience (as I said before) I would expect the CIS and CS curriculums you described to be completely reversed. >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:05:54 -0600 >From: "Jay Patton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: For those of you without a CS Degree >Message-ID: <012501c0c2ba$6eeee730$cb01a8c0@jay> > ><!!!rant!!!> > > >Why do the have to put so much math in the course's? >and >Why do companies turn people away because they have no degree? They have to draw the line somewhere. I have seen (though it is not uncommon) 'CS Degree or equivalent experience.' I don't think I use any math in programming and never understood why they have it. >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:09:54 -0700 >From: "John Wilker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: For those of you without a CS Degree >Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Yeah, to add fuel to the rant fire, I completely agree, My math skills are >somewhere below abysmal. Heck that's why Texas Instruments is doing so well, >CALCULATORS! :-) > >I dropped out of school after a year, due in large part to my failing >Combinatorics, and Boolean Algebra!! Boolean Algebra is actually one of the skills I use multiple times a day. Every time I have to write an if statement with more than one condition. >Hello, I've been a developer for 7 >years now and have never sat and thought, "damn I wish I had passed that >Combinatorics class, this would be so much easier." I left school pretty >disgusted with the whole thing, I think (in my limited experience) that >schools put more math into CS than they do business and logic. Both of which >I think have value above math. I will consider myself lucky that my curriculum was not like that. >------------------------------ > >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:43:41 -0600 >From: "Jay Patton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: For those of you without a CS Degree >Message-ID: <01d301c0c2c8$182fafc0$cb01a8c0@jay> > > >It also signifies commitment and > > dedication to a goal (any goal), and a well-rounded education > >so are you saying that because one doesn't go to college and chooses not to >pay the thousands in tuition, books, housing, ect.. (the list goes on and >on...) but chooses to learn on their own by reading and self teaching (trial >and error) that's not commitment or dedication and you cant come out with a >well-rounded education from that? Some people would say that they think that >shows more commitment and dedication to their goals. Aye, but they have nothing to prove their dedication and commitment. An employer is not going to take your word on it. >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 17:27:04 -0400 >From: "Marc Funaro" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: For those of you without a CS Degree >Message-ID: <002701c0c2ce$27cde3b0$6400000a@marc> > >You may be right, but without the backing of a college board, who's to say >you actually *did* those things? There IS a credibility factor involved >with having a degree from an accredited university on those grounds. And >you certainly can't say that reading one set of books on one subject >qualifies as "well rounded'. > >I even had someone apply for a job once that claimed up-and-down that they >"read all they needed to know" on their own... and then proceeded to tell me >how he would handle the conversion of an ASP site to ColdFusion using a >"FrontPage Wizard". I once asked a guy what was one thing he couldn't do with ColdFusion. He told me, client-side validation, so he uses JavaScript for it. While it is true that ColdFusion won't do client-side validation, it seemed like a strange response. The same guy also didn't understand that SQL and MS SQL Server were two different things. Another guy (after having him rate himself on different technologies) gave himself a 10 (the highest) on HTML. He gave a blank one was asked a question about layers, and the differences in implementation between Netscape and IE. Overall, I guess I have to say that I wouldn't trade my degree for anything. I'm glad I did a co-op in school to get some experience. Jeffry Houser | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] AIM: Reboog711 | ICQ: 5246969 | Phone: 860-229-2781 -- Instant ColdFusion 5.0 | ISBN: 0-07-213238-8 Due out June 2001 -- DotComIt, LLC database driven web data using ColdFusion, Lotus Notes/Domino -- Half of the Alternative Folk Duo called Far Cry Fly http://www.farcryfly.com | http://www.mp3.com/FarCryFly ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. 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