Yeah, to add fuel to the rant fire, I completely agree, My math skills are
somewhere below abysmal. Heck that's why Texas Instruments is doing so well,
CALCULATORS! :-)
I dropped out of school after a year, due in large part to my failing
Combinatorics, and Boolean Algebra!! Hello, I've been a developer for 7
years now and have never sat and thought, "damn I wish I had passed that
Combinatorics class, this would be so much easier." I left school pretty
disgusted with the whole thing, I think (in my limited experience) that
schools put more math into CS than they do business and logic. Both of which
I think have value above math.
I still chuckle when I see postings that require a CS degree, I've
interviewed quite a few people that have come straight out of school and
have no practical application experience, very very funny. I'm not dissing
schools or CS degrees, but the false idea that you'll land a bitchin job
right out of school without any actual experience is realized only by a
small percentage. Everyone else takes Junior developer jobs or worse yet
can't even get into the industry. So I think it's a good fit for the
companies that blindly hire based on having a piece of parchment.
Not too long ago I was turned down for a gig and it appears that the
decision was largely based on my not having a degree, forget the fact that I
had more years of experience than everyone else on that team, and that I've
been doing this for so many years, I didn't go to a University so I was
clearly a substandard developer..
Ok now I'm done too, Ranting always makes me hungry. :-)
J.
John Wilker
Web Applications Consultant
Allaire Certified ColdFusion Developer
www.red-omega.com <http://www.red-omega.com>
The Coca-Cola name in China was first read as "Kekoukela", meaning "Bite the
wax tadpole" or "female horse stuffed with wax", depending on the dialect.
Coke then researched 40,000 characters to find a phonetic equivalent "kokou
kole", translating into "happiness in the mouth."
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Patton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:06 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: For those of you without a CS Degree
.....Sorry in advance...
Here Goes, (just a few questions)
<agree>
I totaly agree with you (Kevin) that "I think a CS degree would be
inappropriate for most CF development work."
</agree>
<!!!rant!!!>
One thing I've never understood though, is why do "they" (they being schools
or whoever sets up the requirements to obtain a CS degree) have to put so
much math in with all of it. Yes i can see how it would help, however math
was my VERY WORST of subjects in school. And i seem to get by perfectly fine
with programming. (Oddly enough i was VERY good in physics, don't ask me
how) I did not go to college (mainly because i couldn't afford it) and yet i
still got a good job in web development. so why do so many companies require
such degrees? I find upsetting when you get turned down for another
candidate that has a CS degree, but yet you have more experience. I have
seen companies turn people away before even speaking with them just because
they don't have a degree of any sort. Some of the best programmers that i
know never even went to college. One day they just picked up a book and
started reading and applying what they learn from that. what honestly, is
the difference from; going to school for 4 years wasting a lot of money, or
picking up a few books from Barnes and noble or the local university book
store and learning on your own? a piece of paper that says HERE YOU HAVE
COMPLETED YOUR CS DEGREE. I have learned more on my own in the last 6
months than a friend of mine in Spokane, WA. has from Gonzaga University.
and he is going for his CS Degree. By the time he is done i will have 5 - 6
years of work experience and he will be stuck looking for one of those entry
level jobs because he wasted what time he could have used to learn more (and
probably faster), than sitting in class for 4 years to get that special
piece of paper. Sorry i kind of strayed from my initial questions:
</!!!rant!!!>
Why do the have to put so much math in the course's?
and
Why do companies turn people away because they have no degree?
That's it im done,
Jay Patton
Web Design / Application Design
Web Pro USA
p. 406.549.3337 ext. 203
p. 1.888.5WEBPRO ext. 203
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
url. www.webpro-usa.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carlson, Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: For those of you without a CS Degree
> Actually, I think a CS degree would be inappropriate for most CF
development
> work. I have a business degree in Computer Information Systems, which I
> believe is more valuable for developing the majority of web-based
> applications. Here are some general impressions I recall among various
> curriculums (when I was in college, anyway ...):
>
> CS: 3 calculus courses, 3 physics courses, compiler design theory
>
> CIS: C, COBOL, Algebra, Discrete Math, Public Speaking, Systems Analysis,
> Systems Design, Database design, Organizational behavior
>
> EE: Fortran
>
> Of course, there are many more differences, and things have certainly
> changed somewhat since I was in college (although Hey! I'm not that old
.....)
> but my overall sense is this:
>
> CS is more geared to the embedded-logic crowd - CS folks often work with
> Electrical Engineers on such projects. No systems analysis or design
> classes required. In other words, not end-user oriented. I'm sure many
CS
> folks have such skills, but they weren't provided by the required
> coursework.
>
> CIS is geared towards business application developers, who will probably
> never need calculus to do their work. The ability to think in terms of
> large-scale, interconnected applications is emphasized. Also emphasized
is
> the ability to work closely with users, usually across multiple groups,
each
> with their own agenda (sound familiar?)
>
> Overall, I think that anyone who actually enjoyed doing algebra story
> problems has a good chance at becoming a good programmer/developer. For
> many people, it's just overkill to get a CS degree, IMHO.
>
> Regards,
> Kevin
>
> > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:53:39 -0700
> > From: Jeffry Houser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: For those of you without a CS Degree
> > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > For those of you who are doing programming-type stuff without a CS
> > degree. How did you learn programming logic? (Or did you?) I just
can't
> >
> > imagine doing a good job without knowing what I know. I've seen so much
> > bad code.
> >
> > To everyone else, please watch your message quoting. It's getting
hard
> > to separate the new posts from the old posts in the digest. There is no
> > need to quote the last seventeen messages in a thread. Mabye it's just
> > me.
> >
> > |
> > | -<erki>-
> > |
> >
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at
http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
