You may be right, but without the backing of a college board, who's to say
you actually *did* those things? There IS a credibility factor involved
with having a degree from an accredited university on those grounds. And
you certainly can't say that reading one set of books on one subject
qualifies as "well rounded'.
I even had someone apply for a job once that claimed up-and-down that they
"read all they needed to know" on their own... and then proceeded to tell me
how he would handle the conversion of an ASP site to ColdFusion using a
"FrontPage Wizard".
"Don't call us, we'll call you." I'll take the guy with the degree and some
experience, thank you.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Patton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:44 PM
To: CF-Community
Subject: Re: For those of you without a CS Degree
>It also signifies commitment and
> dedication to a goal (any goal), and a well-rounded education
so are you saying that because one doesn't go to college and chooses not to
pay the thousands in tuition, books, housing, ect.. (the list goes on and
on...) but chooses to learn on their own by reading and self teaching (trial
and error) that's not commitment or dedication and you cant come out with a
well-rounded education from that? Some people would say that they think that
shows more commitment and dedication to their goals.
Jay Patton
Web Design / Application Design
Web Pro USA
p. 406.549.3337 ext. 203
p. 1.888.5WEBPRO ext. 203
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
url. www.webpro-usa.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Daye, Marianne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:59 PM
Subject: RE: For those of you without a CS Degree
> As some respondents mentioned earlier, CS degree is probably overkill for
a
> Web developer, but as far as employers go, I think the average educational
> level of their employees serves as a status symbol to attract clients,
> investors, and good quality employees. It also signifies commitment and
> dedication to a goal (any goal), and a well-rounded education (they do
learn
> more than math).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay Patton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 3:06 PM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: For those of you without a CS Degree
>
>
> .....Sorry in advance...
>
> Here Goes, (just a few questions)
>
> <agree>
> I totaly agree with you (Kevin) that "I think a CS degree would be
> inappropriate for most CF development work."
> </agree>
>
> <!!!rant!!!>
>
> One thing I've never understood though, is why do "they" (they being
schools
> or whoever sets up the requirements to obtain a CS degree) have to put so
> much math in with all of it. Yes i can see how it would help, however math
> was my VERY WORST of subjects in school. And i seem to get by perfectly
fine
> with programming. (Oddly enough i was VERY good in physics, don't ask me
> how) I did not go to college (mainly because i couldn't afford it) and yet
i
> still got a good job in web development. so why do so many companies
require
> such degrees? I find upsetting when you get turned down for another
> candidate that has a CS degree, but yet you have more experience. I have
> seen companies turn people away before even speaking with them just
because
> they don't have a degree of any sort. Some of the best programmers that i
> know never even went to college. One day they just picked up a book and
> started reading and applying what they learn from that. what honestly, is
> the difference from; going to school for 4 years wasting a lot of money,
or
> picking up a few books from Barnes and noble or the local university book
> store and learning on your own? a piece of paper that says HERE YOU HAVE
> COMPLETED YOUR CS DEGREE. I have learned more on my own in the last 6
> months than a friend of mine in Spokane, WA. has from Gonzaga University.
> and he is going for his CS Degree. By the time he is done i will have 5 -
6
> years of work experience and he will be stuck looking for one of those
entry
> level jobs because he wasted what time he could have used to learn more
(and
> probably faster), than sitting in class for 4 years to get that special
> piece of paper. Sorry i kind of strayed from my initial questions:
>
> </!!!rant!!!>
>
> Why do the have to put so much math in the course's?
> and
> Why do companies turn people away because they have no degree?
>
> That's it im done,
>
> Jay Patton
> Web Design / Application Design
> Web Pro USA
> p. 406.549.3337 ext. 203
> p. 1.888.5WEBPRO ext. 203
> e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> url. www.webpro-usa.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carlson, Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 12:19 PM
> Subject: RE: For those of you without a CS Degree
>
>
> > Actually, I think a CS degree would be inappropriate for most CF
> development
> > work. I have a business degree in Computer Information Systems, which I
> > believe is more valuable for developing the majority of web-based
> > applications. Here are some general impressions I recall among various
> > curriculums (when I was in college, anyway ...):
> >
> > CS: 3 calculus courses, 3 physics courses, compiler design theory
> >
> > CIS: C, COBOL, Algebra, Discrete Math, Public Speaking, Systems
Analysis,
> > Systems Design, Database design, Organizational behavior
> >
> > EE: Fortran
> >
> > Of course, there are many more differences, and things have certainly
> > changed somewhat since I was in college (although Hey! I'm not that old
> .....)
> > but my overall sense is this:
> >
> > CS is more geared to the embedded-logic crowd - CS folks often work with
> > Electrical Engineers on such projects. No systems analysis or design
> > classes required. In other words, not end-user oriented. I'm sure many
> CS
> > folks have such skills, but they weren't provided by the required
> > coursework.
> >
> > CIS is geared towards business application developers, who will probably
> > never need calculus to do their work. The ability to think in terms of
> > large-scale, interconnected applications is emphasized. Also emphasized
> is
> > the ability to work closely with users, usually across multiple groups,
> each
> > with their own agenda (sound familiar?)
> >
> > Overall, I think that anyone who actually enjoyed doing algebra story
> > problems has a good chance at becoming a good programmer/developer. For
> > many people, it's just overkill to get a CS degree, IMHO.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kevin
> >
> > > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 07:53:39 -0700
> > > From: Jeffry Houser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: For those of you without a CS Degree
> > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > > For those of you who are doing programming-type stuff without a CS
> > > degree. How did you learn programming logic? (Or did you?) I just
> can't
> > >
> > > imagine doing a good job without knowing what I know. I've seen so
much
> > > bad code.
> > >
> > > To everyone else, please watch your message quoting. It's getting
> hard
> > > to separate the new posts from the old posts in the digest. There is
no
> > > need to quote the last seventeen messages in a thread. Mabye it's
just
> > > me.
> > >
> > > |
> > > | -<erki>-
> > > |
> > >
> >
>
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