On 9/9/05, Ben Doom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sam wrote: > > OK I can see why some people might think I'm a right-wing Religious nut-job. > > Let me clarify, I'm not against gay marriage, I just don't think our > > culture is ready for it so let it go for a few more years, maybe > > things will change. Right now if civil union works use it. I'm totally > > People made the same argument about civil rights for Blacks in the 60's > and woman's sufferage in the '20s. Sorry, but I'm not buying it. The > American culture will never be "ready" for it -- they will get used to it.
Actually if your attributes of Sam's points are complete, the exact same arguements were used to defend the laws that forbade the marriage between blacks and whites. But hey separate but equal no? > > > against states banning civil unions and if a particular states civil > > union doesn't allow for equal rights then I say change it. > > Thanks for that. > > > I was addressing the religious aspect of this. American culture is > > strongly based on religion so that may be why it was originally taboo > > but now many non-religious people are against gay marriage. It's now > > embedded in our culture. Pedophilia is accepted in some cultures but > > not here yet, if it were condemned in the Bible, Gruss would insist we > > legalized it. > > With regard to pedophelia: pedophelia is illegal for basically the same > reason that 12-year-olds aren't allowed to vote. Children aren't > considered mature enough to make rational decisions about such deep > topics. Having sex with someone unable to decide whether or not they > should is considered rape. > > I'd just as soon avoid a debate about whether kids should be able to > make such decisions and, for that matter, vote. I'm just pointing out > the rationale. > > > The studies Larry is referring to show homosexuality is a > > physiological condition. What about rape and pedophilia? That'll get > > me in trouble but I don't mean it as an insult gay. I'm referring to > > rumors I heard somewhere that rapist and pedophilias are incurable. If > > it weren't for society they would be considered normal. I'll save > > Larry trouble and admit I know nothing about physiology or psychology. > > I'm just trying to make a point about culture. And that is it's more > > cultural then religious so when culture acceptance changes then they > > can use the word marriage. Wrong. Those studies show that sexual orientation is physiologically based. The same factors that make people attracted to the same sex with a slight change make others attracted to the opposite sex. Just as eyecolour or handedness are based on physiological factors, probably hormonal or genetic. I just sent a set of summaries to the list from pub med that looked at the physiological basis of pedophilia. It appears that its based on neurological factors than genetic or prenatal hormonal factors. A very different mechanism that what is thought to cause attraction to the same sex. In other words an entirely different system is involved. Moreover with pedophilia, there is the matter of the lack of consent. Its a form of rape. > > Okay, I'm going to take a bit of offense here. Yes, things like > pedophelia may have a physiological basis -- I don't know if anyone has > ever studied that. But you are, in essense, comparing gay people to > sociopaths. The big difference between a rapist, pedophile, or > sociopath and someone who is gay is that being gay doesn't hurt anyone > else. If two guys like each other, who does that harm? If someone > enjoys killing people, who does that harm? Not really the same, IMHO. > > > I think the same culture that causes gays to want their bond to be > > called marriage is the same culture that's forbidding it. If the clerk > > asked me if I wanted a marriage or civil union way back I would have > > said which one is cheaper. 12 years later I still haven't looked at > > that document, I don't even know where it is. So why would they need > > to use that word so much if it weren't for the culture that made that > > word desirable? Why do gays have a civil right to use the word > > marriage? I think someone mentioned bestiality on this list way back, > > what about the civil rights to marry your dog? I should have the civil > > right to put PHD after my name while we're at it. I don't even know if > > that's illegal :) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:173593 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
