First of all, we had westward expansion - 40 acres and a mule. But then think about the French Revolution.
- Matt ----- Original Message ----- From: "Loathe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:59 PM Subject: RE: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America > What? > > We didn't have a welfare system for well over a hundred years, but people > didn't run wild killing each other in the streets. They got jobs, or > their > family helped out, or their church. > > Tim > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Chesty Puller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 9:43 PM >> To: CF-Community >> Subject: Re: Next in line to be labeled Dictator by America >> >> >> I think that Gruss doesn't realize that a country without a >> welfare program >> is going to be run over by criminals killing others for gain. >> Case in point: >> New Orleans >> >> - Matt >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dana" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "CF-Community" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 7:56 PM >> Subject: Re: Next in line to be labelled Dictator by America >> >> >> > We all make mistakes and bad choices, Gruss. Some of us get penalized >> > more savagely than others. By the way, from what I remember, Enron >> > employees were not given any option for their retirement account >> > besides Enron stock. >> > >> > Outside of empathy though, it is generally better to take care of >> > social problems while they are small. For example. Bob Doe has worked >> > in the mailroom at Enron for 10 years. He is pretty good at his job. >> > Since he wants to send his kids to college (isn't that the American >> > dream?) he moonlights somewhere else. >> > >> > Enron goes kablooie through no fault of his own. I know your scenario >> > says that Bob should have gotten an MBA and a job with another >> > corporation but who is to say that this other corporation would no >> > thave been playing the same games with its balance sheet? And he would >> > be even more vulnerable there as a new hire. Anyway, so Bob can't make >> > his mortgage payment. Bob runs through unemployment, which is still >> > not enough to make the mortgage payment though it does put food on the >> > table (Bob being a proud sort does not want to apply for food stamps). >> > >> > Eventually Bob loses the house and we have Bob and his wife and his >> > kids now NEED food stamps. Except that this does not get them into >> > housing and they do the shelter system for a couple of years waiting >> > for subsidized housing to come available. Meanwhile, the kids wind up >> > at the crappiest of public schools and learn that the grownup world is >> > both arbitrary and stupid. Frustrated, they turn to drugs and >> > delinquency. >> > >> > Total costs under this scenario are far higher than they would have >> > been if Bob had gotten some job coaching and maybe a low-cost loan to >> > help with his mortgage payment in time for it to do him some good. >> > Sure, if he had gotten himself an MBA and a cool new job with Arthur >> > Anderson he might not be there (wait a minute).... but then again >> > there would always be a mailroom clerk at Enron, see my point? >> > >> > Dana >> > >> > >> > >> > On 1/10/06, Gruss Gott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > Dana wrote: >> >> > I'll agree with everything you say except granny dying in the >> >> > street. >> >> >> >> Here's my problem with that: granny used to be 20 and clearly made >> >> some bad decisions to get to the point you're talking about. You have >> >> to take a step back and ask, "Is it government's role to subsidize >> >> people's mistakes?" >> >> >> >> So, for example, should the guy who lost all of his retirement because >> >> he put it all into ENRON get a "do over" on the tax payer coin? I >> >> say no. >> >> >> >> I'd much rather see the majority of that money put into empowerment >> >> programs like education than I would want to see it subsidizing >> >> people's mistakes. (yes, yes, the education system is broken. So we >> >> fix it via privatization :) >> >> >> >> In reality, however, no matter how good your empowerment programs are >> >> you're always going to have a few problems: >> >> >> >> 1.) People that can't compete due to birth (special needs). >> >> 2.) People that can't compete due to consequences (drug addicts, >> >> alcoholics) >> >> 3.) People that, no matter how much you empower them, will still fail. >> >> >> >> So you need to shore up those holes. But not before you empower >> >> people by telling them they're on their own. >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:5:191568 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:5 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5 Donations & Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
