And as an american who was mortified that the american people chose to vote "frat boy" GWB over "dorky intellectual" Gore I can assure you that their millions have nothing to do with my being able to relate.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Falloon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:19 AM Subject: Re: jihad for kids .. wheeee > I'd say the political system makes it difficult for a lot of Americans to > even relate, let alone get good representation..... for example.... > > George W. and his cabinet.... > > (This was from Adbusters...) > > Question: There are nineteen members of the Bush Administration cabinet. How > many are millionaires? > > a) 5 > b)10 > c) 18 > > > Answer: c) 18. And seven members of the cabinet are worth more than $10 > Million. > > (I wonder if these people have a hard time relating to societies > disadvantaged...) > > Benjamin > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Will Swain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 4:02 AM > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > > > > Fair point that we are talking about apples and pears maybe, but how is > > alienation a choice on the part of the alienated? > > > > The political system is failing poeple if they feel alienated from it. As > > for your comment about not wanting everyone to vote, particularly less > > educated poeple, I think that is a very very dangerous precedent to set > for > > obvious reasons. > > > > will > > > > by the way, I am thoroughly enjoying this debate. Thanks. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: 18 February 2002 16:57 > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > > > > > > Will Mugabe be elected in a free electoral system where every person > > qualified (based on a neutral qualification standard, such as age) is > > allowed to vote, to vote secretly, and choose between candidates of > > different opinions/stances/agendas? > > > > If we're going to compare elections, let's be sure we're comparing apples > to > > apples. > > > > As for America or Britain, alienation is a choice. A free choice. If > people > > choose not to vote, that has no bearing on the legitimacy of the election. > > Hell, it enhances it. > > > > H. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 8:33 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > > > > > > I'm questioning the democractic nature of the US political system, and the > > British one while I'm at it. I didn't think democracy was the voice of > those > > who don't feel so alienated by politics that they vote? Winning is the > > mandate to rule you say? So when Mugabe wins that will be enough, he will > > have a mandate to rule? > > > > will > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: 18 February 2002 16:26 > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > > > > > > Winning is the mandate to rule. In a representative government, that's > all > > you need. > > > > Getting a majority of the votes (in a three-way election) is irrelevant. > > Getting a majority of all registered voters is even more irrelevant. > > > > I don't really get you're point, however. What does this have to do with > > democracies being careful? There is no democratic code that says all > people > > must vote. In fact, not voting is a form of voting. Furthermore, I don't > > want all people to vote. Too many people who are ill-informed vote already > > any way. Of course, that's their choice, but I don't believe democracy > > suffers when people choose not to vote. The nice thing about a free > society > > is that you can choose not to participate in the civic process if that's > > what floats your boat. People should be free to choose that option without > > being made out to be cretins. > > > > H. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:25 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > > > > > > I see what you are saying but I do worry that there is a dangerous > > undercurrent lurking in the background there. Like maybe we could just ask > > them what they think about it? Otherwise it is simply a case of a dominant > > culture imposing it's values on everyone else. Yes, it might be from the > > best motivations, but I think you could see the arrogance there. > > Furthermore, I think you are on very dangerous ground with your assertion > > that "A government that is formed from a mandate from the masses (and not > > from some farcical aquatic ceremony) is the only way to go." Again, > imposing > > a morality and world view on others. Who is to say that a benevolent > > dictatorship is not a better way to live? > > > > Also, I think we who live in 'democratic' countries should be very > careful. > > After all, is it not true that less than half the population of the US > voted > > in the last election, and arguably less than half of those who did > actually > > voted for Bush? Hardly a mandate to rule? > > > > will > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Lon Lentz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: 15 February 2002 23:32 > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: jihad for kids .. wheeee > > > > > > > > I will never accept the premise that "correct" and "right" are > > subjective. They are not. > > > > Killing is not necessarily wrong. Murder is wrong. Completely > > different. If killing is "wrong", then why do we hire "cops", give them > > badges and guns, and allow them to "kill" in our name? Why do we let the > > state "kill" in our name? Why do we let the US military "kill" in our > > name? There is no subjectiveness here. There is only absolute. > > > > I am not in anyway trying to suggest that we shove our western ideals > > down their throats. A government that is formed from a mandate from the > > masses (and not from some farcical aquatic ceremony) is the only way to > > go. That is absolute. However they choose to do it. > > > > Proper human behavior is right and just. No matter where you live. No > > matter what religion you follow. No matter your ethnic background. > > > > Would you suggest that the female castrations that go on in Africa, > > could in some way, be "right" or "correct" for those people? I don't > > care what kind of society they have, that is wrong. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: chris.alvarado [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 5:01 PM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: Re: jihad for kids .. wheeee > > > > > > > > > no I'm suggesting exactly what I stated. > > > > > > Absolutes are absolutely wrong. > > > > > > case in point: > > > > > > Killing is wrong. > > > > > > Killing in self defense, is that wrong? > > > > > > most people would tend to say no, if the choice is kill or be killed, > > and > > > that is the only way, then killing in self defense is not "wrong", > > which > > > completely contradicts the first statement: 'killing is wrong'. > > Killing is > > > killing no matter how pretty you try to paint it. > > > > > > "right" and "wrong" is all a matter of perception. > > > > > > believing that something is right or wrong does not make it so. > > > > > > I believe that the events that occurred on 9/11 and some of the events > > > thereafter were "wrong" but that does not make it universally so. > > > > > > Who put you, or me for that matter in charge of dictating what is > > right or > > > wrong? > > > > > > Freedom is not just about living the way you want to live, it is > > > about being > > > able to also acknowledge the way others choose to live whether you > > agree > > > with it or not. > > > > > > Unconventional thought? perhaps, but this country's ideals were > > founded on > > > what was considered to be unconventional / 'unpopular' thinking. > > > > > > in short, what is right for you, may not be right for others, I'm > > > not saying > > > that about freedom or any one thing in particular. I'm saying, in > > general. > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
