It honestly doesn't sound to me as though you were poor when you were displaced by "an act of god" either. You had an apartment, a computer and some sort of internet access.
Sounds like you should have gotten insurance. Timothy J. Heald | NIH-Contractor | iGate nVision/NIH Data Warehouse Project Enterprise Business Intelligence Branch (EBIB) Division of Enterprise and Custom Applications, CIT/NIH/DHHS 10401 Fernwood Road, Suite 3NE06N Bethesda, MD 20892 Office: 301.594.5611 Fax: 301.443.7010 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -----Original Message----- > From: Dana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:16 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: Poverty Challenge! > > What she said. > > But beyond that, it isn't always a matter of "teaching" > people. If you examine the term it means that I am right and > you are wrong and I know and you don't. Cure? Perhaps poverty > is a disease, but it isn't always the poor people that have > it. Sometimes it's society. What happens to all the kids who > get shunted out of school because they are too hard to teach, > do you think? > > To my mind a LARGE part of the problem is the mentality that > people make poor choices and poverty happens as a result. > Such people certainly exist, but it is a stereotype that the > homeless and the poor are drug addicts and drunks. While such > people exist, they are not the majority of the poor. The > stereotype does however go a long way towards reassuring the > people who are not poor that no empathy is necessary, because > this could never happen to them, and all those people just > need to work harded. > > The last homeless person I had any dealings with worked for > the local community college as a math tutor. She made enough > money to pay rent, but not enough to get together a security > deposit. I myself was in this position after I got caught in > a flood in Texas and had to move out of the place I was > living. FEMA kicked in assistance in the amount of two months > of rent for where I had been living but see -- that place was > no longer available. And in that small town in Texas all of > the other rental housing was full of relatives of the > landlord, since I was far from the only person displaced. And > guess, what, rent in San Antonio was about three times as much. > > Meantime the telecommute web design position I had went away > as I no longer had a computer and could not get the work done > in the half hour a day of web access the local library > allowed. Things went downhill from there. What fixed the > situation was definitely not anybody giving me a fucking > money management class. What I needed was online access. > What I had access to were people that wanted to teach me how to type. > > I find the whole suggestion a bit insulting actually. The > people I have known who were poor all knew damn well what > their problems were and what their choices were, and did not > need some white middle-class bureaucrat to come tell them > that if they do drugs, they might have trouble keeping a job. > Their problems were more along the lines of how to deal with > the young men who sat on the steps of their apartment > buildings selling drugs. Or how to get their children to a > library, since there wasn't one in their neighborhood. > > You think they didn't know that the neighborhood market was > more expensive than the supermarket? You think they didn't > know that saving for retirement might be a good thing? > > Let's go back to the girl in the youtube video. Do you really > think that she woke up one morning and said wow, I think I'll > turn down this job that pays well and has medical insurance > and take this other job that doesn't use my education, and > has no health benefits for the first six months? She says she > took it to pay the bills, Gruss, probably because maxing out > a credit card was not an option for her. > > Finally I'd like to say that I have BEEN poor. I wasn't born > poor and I am not poor now, but I have been poor along the > way. And *I* don't think it's possible to reduce a discussion > of poverty to a few hundred words. Perhaps this will help you > understand why I think it's so arrogant for someone to > attempt to diagnose and "cure" the condition. > > Max out a credit card? If you're fighting over minimum wage > work credit cards are... wow. You might as well tell someone > to wave their magic wand. Move, sure. With what, their teeth? > If you are flat broke you may be barely staying housed. How > do you propose that people rent a truck, store their > belongings, stay at a hotel unil they find a place to live, > and pay all the associated security deposits? It's a facile > superficial solution that does nothing but make the person > proposing it feel superior to the person who is unable to > implement it. > > ::sigh:: > > On 6/26/07, Deanna Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 6/25/07, Gruss Gott <g> wrote: > > > > > "Helped" means fixing whatever psychological/drug/whatever issues > > > they have, and then teaching them how to live in our society. > > > > > > > I find it interesting that you would put it that way - "live in our > > society." They're already living in our society. What they're not > > doing is living by the rules of middle class society. There's one > > really well known self-proclaimed expert on poverty that > has written a > > book about the hidden rules of socio-economic groups. She's > come under > > fire because much of what she's written is anecdotal. But, a fairly > > large contingent of scholars in the field have adopted her verbiage. > > The book is Bridges out of Poverty, by Ruby Payne. I've not > read the > > whole book, only excerpts. But, what I've read has been > good food for > > thought. I'm not sure I'm in total agreement with what she > says. But, > > one of her big points is that in order for people to move from one > > socio-economic class to another, they have to learn the > hidden rules. > > And, she purports that it is equally true for those going > from poverty > > to middle class as from middle to upper crust. > > > > The reverse is true - for people in middle or upper classes to > > understand poverty, they must learn about the rules by which those > > people in poverty live. Thus, it's not as simple as just educating > > someone. It's helping someone make a new cultural identity. > If we were > > asked to move to someplace with a culture not like our own, I would > > imagine that most of us would have at least some fear about > it - it's > > difficult to leave what you know (where you may have been the most > > successful pantry "shopper" in the hood), who you know (your family > > and best friends may be trying to keep you in poverty with > them), and > > where you know (living in bad neighborhoods decreases your > likelihood > > of getting out of poverty). Can it be done? Yes. Is it simple or > > cheap? No. Does it involve maxing out a credit card? Highly > unlikely. > > > > I love your sense of optimism & idealism, Gruss. I've watched > > throughout this thread as you've modified your initial statements > > from, essentially, "if people just didn't screw up their lives to > > begin with they wouldn't wind up in poverty" to a much more > reasoned > > approach that given the right tools, many in poverty could get out. > > So, perhaps this thread has broadened your perspective. I > don't know > > that putting a number on it (what percentage of people > could get out, > > given the right tools) is a worthwhile exercise. It's just > > postulating. Because (and here comes the cynic in me) it's highly > > unlikely that most people in poverty would be given the right tools. > > Our social welfare system is overburdened and underfunded. Accurate > > statistics on what works and what doesn't are hard to come by, but > > there is some research on Wisconsin's welfare reform program here: > > http://www.irp.wisc.edu/research/welreform/wisconsin.htm > > > > People site Wisconsin as being a shining example of welfare reform. > > But, if you dig deeper, the research shows that while people are > > getting off welfare, they're not necessarily getting out of poverty. > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 & experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:237311 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
