I wasn't poor before the flood. I was definitely poor afterwards. I got left with essentially a change of clothes and an elderly pickup truck. And no income. That's pretty poor. There's worse, but that was enough for me.
My point being that not everyone who is currently having money problems needs "fixing" or education. And btw renter's insurance covers only modest amounts of motel time. I'm thinking a month. It took me about six months to get out of a motel and a couple of years to fully recover. It might have been less had FEMA been less dysfuncional, but fine. I'm over that and this is merely an example. Dana On 6/26/07, Heald, Timothy (NIH/CIT) [C] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It honestly doesn't sound to me as though you were poor when you were > displaced by "an act of god" either. You had an apartment, a computer > and some sort of internet access. > > Sounds like you should have gotten insurance. > > Timothy J. Heald | NIH-Contractor | iGate > nVision/NIH Data Warehouse Project > Enterprise Business Intelligence Branch (EBIB) > Division of Enterprise and Custom Applications, CIT/NIH/DHHS > 10401 Fernwood Road, Suite 3NE06N > Bethesda, MD 20892 > Office: 301.594.5611 > Fax: 301.443.7010 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 2:16 PM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: Re: Poverty Challenge! > > > > What she said. > > > > But beyond that, it isn't always a matter of "teaching" > > people. If you examine the term it means that I am right and > > you are wrong and I know and you don't. Cure? Perhaps poverty > > is a disease, but it isn't always the poor people that have > > it. Sometimes it's society. What happens to all the kids who > > get shunted out of school because they are too hard to teach, > > do you think? > > > > To my mind a LARGE part of the problem is the mentality that > > people make poor choices and poverty happens as a result. > > Such people certainly exist, but it is a stereotype that the > > homeless and the poor are drug addicts and drunks. While such > > people exist, they are not the majority of the poor. The > > stereotype does however go a long way towards reassuring the > > people who are not poor that no empathy is necessary, because > > this could never happen to them, and all those people just > > need to work harded. > > > > The last homeless person I had any dealings with worked for > > the local community college as a math tutor. She made enough > > money to pay rent, but not enough to get together a security > > deposit. I myself was in this position after I got caught in > > a flood in Texas and had to move out of the place I was > > living. FEMA kicked in assistance in the amount of two months > > of rent for where I had been living but see -- that place was > > no longer available. And in that small town in Texas all of > > the other rental housing was full of relatives of the > > landlord, since I was far from the only person displaced. And > > guess, what, rent in San Antonio was about three times as much. > > > > Meantime the telecommute web design position I had went away > > as I no longer had a computer and could not get the work done > > in the half hour a day of web access the local library > > allowed. Things went downhill from there. What fixed the > > situation was definitely not anybody giving me a fucking > > money management class. What I needed was online access. > > What I had access to were people that wanted to teach me how to type. > > > > I find the whole suggestion a bit insulting actually. The > > people I have known who were poor all knew damn well what > > their problems were and what their choices were, and did not > > need some white middle-class bureaucrat to come tell them > > that if they do drugs, they might have trouble keeping a job. > > Their problems were more along the lines of how to deal with > > the young men who sat on the steps of their apartment > > buildings selling drugs. Or how to get their children to a > > library, since there wasn't one in their neighborhood. > > > > You think they didn't know that the neighborhood market was > > more expensive than the supermarket? You think they didn't > > know that saving for retirement might be a good thing? > > > > Let's go back to the girl in the youtube video. Do you really > > think that she woke up one morning and said wow, I think I'll > > turn down this job that pays well and has medical insurance > > and take this other job that doesn't use my education, and > > has no health benefits for the first six months? She says she > > took it to pay the bills, Gruss, probably because maxing out > > a credit card was not an option for her. > > > > Finally I'd like to say that I have BEEN poor. I wasn't born > > poor and I am not poor now, but I have been poor along the > > way. And *I* don't think it's possible to reduce a discussion > > of poverty to a few hundred words. Perhaps this will help you > > understand why I think it's so arrogant for someone to > > attempt to diagnose and "cure" the condition. > > > > Max out a credit card? If you're fighting over minimum wage > > work credit cards are... wow. You might as well tell someone > > to wave their magic wand. Move, sure. With what, their teeth? > > If you are flat broke you may be barely staying housed. How > > do you propose that people rent a truck, store their > > belongings, stay at a hotel unil they find a place to live, > > and pay all the associated security deposits? It's a facile > > superficial solution that does nothing but make the person > > proposing it feel superior to the person who is unable to > > implement it. > > > > ::sigh:: > > > > On 6/26/07, Deanna Schneider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On 6/25/07, Gruss Gott <g> wrote: > > > > > > > "Helped" means fixing whatever psychological/drug/whatever issues > > > > they have, and then teaching them how to live in our society. > > > > > > > > > > I find it interesting that you would put it that way - "live in our > > > society." They're already living in our society. What they're not > > > doing is living by the rules of middle class society. There's one > > > really well known self-proclaimed expert on poverty that > > has written a > > > book about the hidden rules of socio-economic groups. She's > > come under > > > fire because much of what she's written is anecdotal. But, a fairly > > > large contingent of scholars in the field have adopted her verbiage. > > > The book is Bridges out of Poverty, by Ruby Payne. I've not > > read the > > > whole book, only excerpts. But, what I've read has been > > good food for > > > thought. I'm not sure I'm in total agreement with what she > > says. But, > > > one of her big points is that in order for people to move from one > > > socio-economic class to another, they have to learn the > > hidden rules. > > > And, she purports that it is equally true for those going > > from poverty > > > to middle class as from middle to upper crust. > > > > > > The reverse is true - for people in middle or upper classes to > > > understand poverty, they must learn about the rules by which those > > > people in poverty live. Thus, it's not as simple as just educating > > > someone. It's helping someone make a new cultural identity. > > If we were > > > asked to move to someplace with a culture not like our own, I would > > > imagine that most of us would have at least some fear about > > it - it's > > > difficult to leave what you know (where you may have been the most > > > successful pantry "shopper" in the hood), who you know (your family > > > and best friends may be trying to keep you in poverty with > > them), and > > > where you know (living in bad neighborhoods decreases your > > likelihood > > > of getting out of poverty). Can it be done? Yes. Is it simple or > > > cheap? No. Does it involve maxing out a credit card? Highly > > unlikely. > > > > > > I love your sense of optimism & idealism, Gruss. I've watched > > > throughout this thread as you've modified your initial statements > > > from, essentially, "if people just didn't screw up their lives to > > > begin with they wouldn't wind up in poverty" to a much more > > reasoned > > > approach that given the right tools, many in poverty could get out. > > > So, perhaps this thread has broadened your perspective. I > > don't know > > > that putting a number on it (what percentage of people > > could get out, > > > given the right tools) is a worthwhile exercise. It's just > > > postulating. Because (and here comes the cynic in me) it's highly > > > unlikely that most people in poverty would be given the right tools. > > > Our social welfare system is overburdened and underfunded. Accurate > > > statistics on what works and what doesn't are hard to come by, but > > > there is some research on Wisconsin's welfare reform program here: > > > http://www.irp.wisc.edu/research/welreform/wisconsin.htm > > > > > > People site Wisconsin as being a shining example of welfare reform. > > > But, if you dig deeper, the research shows that while people are > > > getting off welfare, they're not necessarily getting out of poverty. > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 & Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:237411 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
