On Dec 8, 2007 3:57 PM, Adam Churvis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Of course we're friends! Why wouldn't we be?
great! with that in mind, let's proceed :) > But it sounds like you're saying that if I posit that ColdFusion is doing > anything other than great gangbusters, I will actually lose friends. Don't > friends respect each other's points of view -- and even encourage them to > speak their minds? of course. friends also step in and say "whoa there" when one yells "COWBOYS SUCK COCK" while wearing a Philadelphia Eagles jersey inside of a bar in Dallas, TX. In cases like that, friend #2 generally tries to get friend #1 to see that there are more diplomatic ways to convey the difference of opinion. It's possible for there to be a logical, level-headed conversation as to who's better, the Cowboys or Eagles. But in that particular bar, there's a way to start that particular conversation (even though it's all for naught because the Giants are really the only team that matters). > It wasn't a snide remark; it was an observation. Did I really have to > handle everyone on this list with kid gloves? Before someone changed the > Adobe site to include ColdFusion in the spotlighted products on the home > page, it was not to be found on any click path through the featured > products. ColdFusion was literally an afterthought to whomever handled the > planning of the home page. It came across as snide (at least to a couple of us), and I'm pretty sure you're aware of that. It's not about kid gloves. It's about tact (see the now-hospitalized Eagles fan above). > It sounds like many people on this list and others are in serious denial > about many facets regarding ColdFusion, such as the trending of its market > share, its fiscal importance to Adobe shareholders vis-à-vis upper > management, and its place on the Adobe Product Line Totem Pole of > Importance. As Gel suggested in his response above mine... there are lots of CF folk (myself included) who would like to see more marketing done for the product. I spent the day at "Flex Camp" here in San Fran at the Adobe offices a few months back thinking, "this is awesome and it's great that they (Adobe) did this... but it really sucks that they don't market CF a fraction of what they're doing for Flex." So as far as I'm concerned, my guess is that CF isn't as high on the proverbial totem-pole as Flex (or Flash, or PhotoShop). But I could also be wrong. That's my opinion based on what I infer from Adobe's actions (or lack thereof). > There are a few reasons why Adobe won't publish figures on the breakdown of > revenue and profit by product line, And unlike most of us... you know these reasons, eh? I'm picturing you and a guy in a trenchcoat holding an envelope deep in the bowels of a parking garage of the Adobe building? > not the least of which is that doing so > would provide their competition with strategic data that can be used to > formulate attacks on key market spaces, and could call Adobe's hand with > respect to future moves Adobe might make (product line composition, > potential acquisitions, etc). But I'm betting -- as I have for a while now > -- that the revenue versus expenses for ColdFusion is not just disappointing > in current figures, but that new license (non-upgrade) sales also point to a > less-than-satisfactory future. > > This is an opinion that is I'm sure very different from what people want to > hear, but contrary opinions should always be seriously considered. You're entitled to that opinion. My opinion has always been that there are people within Adobe whose job it is to determine things like product price lines, marketing budgets, etc. I further believe that these people don't make decisions in a vacuum and there are reasons driving their actions (or again, inactions as the case may be). is ColdFusion sitting pretty atop the totem pole? Certainly not. I'd guess that Photoshop will always enjoy that position. As I said earlier, I'm sure Flex and Flash are also higher up. But at the end of the day, what's that mean? ColdFusion has always enjoyed sort of a niche market placement. I can't see the company moving resources from their Photoshop group (or others) to ColdFusion. When MM bought Allaire, we all panicked. A company whose primary tool (Flash) is geared toward designers is going to completely screw up ColdFusion. Yet, from what I could see (from an outsiders perspective... I wasn't involved in any company meetings), ColdFusion did pretty well (as a product line, at least). That move from CF5 to CFMX was pretty significant, and I'm sure cost Macromedia a pretty penny in terms of research and development. They seemed to think it was a worthwhile endeavor tho. I feel the same way now. We all panicked when Adobe bought Macromedia. Yet, here's CF 8 with a slew of significant enhancements. I've seen people make comments like, "oooh image manipulation. big deal. it should have been there long ago", and that's not incorrect (as far as I'm concerned). But the fact of the matter is that it wasn't there, but is now. Somebody felt that it was worthwhile to invest the time and effort into adding that functionality (as well as other functionality) into the product. So while ColdFusion isn't in the spotlight with fanfare and naked chicks and beer... I'm not really reading too much into that (but would't it be cool if CF9 came with naked chicks and beer?). > Charlie, I firmly believe that there is no ColdFusion-related subject that > should be off-limits on this list. I would say *especially* anything even > remotely related to varied views of the future of ColdFusion. Sure, but do it with tact. If you want to be able to take off the "kid gloves" on a list that's comprised of mostly ColdFusion developers, well you can't really expect that we wouldn't return the favor? :) It's really all about the tact. We had the guys from Railo present at one of our CFUGs a few months back (the IECFUG in SoCal). Here's a very high level overview of what they said: "Hey everybody. We're not here to slam Adobe and/or ColdFusion. In fact, we think they've got a pretty darn good product. But we also think we have a pretty darn good product and we'd like to show it to you." Needless to say, they were very well received. They promoted their product by pointing out what they believe are it's strengths, as opposed to pointing out what they think are Adobe ColdFusion's weaknesses. Tact :) As it is, I can't help but get an uneasy feeling that in responding at all, I'm contributing to your effort to spread around the FUD. But I'll believe for now that you generally want to discuss this, and that there's no other agenda at hand. -- "Scientists tell us that the fastest animal on earth, with a top speed of 120 feet per second, is a cow that has been dropped out of a helicopter." - Dave Barry ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| ColdFusion 8 - Build next generation apps today, with easy PDF and Ajax features - download now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:247984 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
