On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 6:17 PM, William Bowen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, by *Muslim* tradition, Obama is a Muslim 'cause his father was a > Muslim? and his schooling. But note that I did not say he was a Muslim but that according to Muslim tradition he is both a Muslim and an apostate. For more discussion on this with links, look at this article: http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5286 > so what? He's got no right to determine his own spiritual path? He > can't throw off the mantle of Islam because he chooses to? Because > someone *else* says he can't? Nope, according to orthodox Islam he doesn't. See above. > Let's take a more personal example. Should I still consider myself > Catholic because my parents baptized me so? I don't practice, I am in > fact, an Atheist. Does that matter? Or is it okay because I have said > yes, I was a Catholic, but now I am an Atheist... I believe that once your baptized your considered a Christian no matter what, according to orthodox Christianity. This has caused a LOT of problems in the past with forced baptisms. But the point is that your stance now does not change your history. And we're both talking your personal stance and how others see you. Does the church see you as a Catholic because of your past? How about your parents? See above. > Is Islam genetic? You have argued in the past that being Jewish is > both genetic as well as a choice. If you decided to become Atheist, > you'd still be Jewish, by descent, but not by practice. Does the same > hold true for Islam? I'd argue that it does not. We're talking about how orthodox Islam views him as well as his past. See above. You know as well as I do that those that are prattling on about Obama > once having been a Muslim are doing so to sow the seeds of fear. Same > as Republicans did during the early 60s when campaigning against > Kennedy by saying "He's Catholic, if elected he'll turn over the > country to the Pope." Your missing the point of what I said. My post first addressed peoples need to shift a topic away from the topic to Bush, Republicans or some other comparison. My second paragraph addressed the topic of him being Muslim. Again, I didn't claim he was, just that he is according to orthodox Islam. The problem is that his story has shifted over time and telling and the statement on his website is just a sentence, not an explanation. > It was ridiculous then, it's more so now.. We'll see if/when he's elected. Point is, it's not ridiculous as every facet of a candidates history is examined on the election trail and how that facet will effect the future of his possible presidency. If McCain will be considered a security risk because he was a war prisoner then it will be examined. If Obama's connection to Islam (no matter how tenuous) will cause problems with his talking with orthodox Muslim regimes, then it will be examined. Why not examine the issues rather than trying to compare everything to Bush's failings. That's the point of what I said in my post, what I say now, and will continue to say in the future. Maybe we can get together, compile all of the news reports and write a complete, documented and clearly written piece about this or other topics. And yes, I've see snopes but it does not address all of the sources used and if its going to debunk the issue it has to. Or Obama's site has to. Or we have to. Or. Or. Or. > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Michael Dinowitz > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I wonder why it is that every time an Obama lie is brought up it's buried > > under a "but he's not Bush" response. Why not deal with the lies, examine > > the issue and stop there. > > > > So Obama is, according to Muslim tradition, a Muslim and an apostate. So > > he's marked for death by orthodox Islam. So he lied about it to save his > ass > > from those who would kill him. So he's still lying about it and is making > > sure the fact is buried. > > > > But he's not Bush, so the lie is ok. > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;192386516;25150098;k Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:261862 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
