Me I think what matters is knowing that someone gives a damn. Not necessarily whether mommy is home baking cookies. I think you make several good points but... well, this is another post I should not be trying to answer while at work, bottom line. More later. My overall point though is that while I very much disagree with Palin on many things, most especially including contraception, I think we should not be feeding the fingerpointing. We. Do. Not. Know.
more later. On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 3:20 PM, denstar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Dana wrote: >> They may well affect my perception of the situation. I suspect that >> what youare saying also stems from some family observation about >> absent parents. But it matters whether the child is abandoned or >> simply not always in one single person's care. I think that's an >> artificial Hollywood expectation and possibly harmful. > > What I'm saying comes from years of observing parents and children in general. > > I've seen great outcomes with kids raised by absent parents, or I > should say, extended family. > > I've seen the feral side of child rearing, on the mean streets of 'burque. > > I've seen the single mother or father, struggling to get by. > > I've had direct experience with all of the above, over a period of years. > > I think there is a difference between say, being *unable* to give your > kids the attention they need, and being *unwiling* (Nietzsche's > thoughts about willpower/ability aside ;]). > > I know how the "real world" works, I've consistently said "optimal", > ya know? If the world were perfect-- both parents, as well as > extended family, and the community/world, could and would be learning > them kids. > > I think you've experienced some sorta similar type stuff, things > "average" people haven't and whatnot. It's interesting to get your > take, not on the stone throwing, but on being around. > >> But what I am saying here also comes from time on the ground, you know >> what I mean? I understand what you are saying, that parents are >> important, and for what it is worth I agree. However, it also occurs >> to me that the people who are casting the stones here each have just >> one, very young, child. At that stage of parenthood I thought there >> was one optimal way to do this stuff too. > > It's not that it's one way, I just think it's the "best" way(s). Time > proven, even. > > Casting stones is lame, but I don't feel as bad judging people who > judge-- Which is still pretty lame, if you ask me. > > The Republicans seem to want to push their ways on the rest of the > population, and by ways I mean beliefs. > > Teaching "abstinence only" is dangerous, bottom line, and based not on > facts, but belief. Pushing creationism as an alternative, while > saying it's a fight for everyone's freedom? "The Right" has let > evangelical, X brand Christian's co-opt them, and it shows, not just > in statements to the media, but actual law, and programs offered. And > always seem to be judging. > Doesn't make it right for me to do it, though. > > I'm no expert parent! Nor a perfect one. I want the best for the > kiddos, bottom line, and "optimal" is, I guess you're right, relative. > > And although I'm a relatively new parent, I'm not new to raising > "children". Everyone is unique (just like everyone else). I love > that it takes different strokes for different folks. I have spent a > lot of time thinking about it. Mom's a teacher, and somehow education > figures into what I'm saying... involvement, sorta. > > I've been working in childcare for 10+ years, doing what I can to > raise standards here in The State. Cutting down on paperwork, > fleshing out process/mission-- to give the caregivers more time to > give care, mostly-- I'm decent at it, and I like it. Doesn't pay very > well though... and I got to start thinking about my scions... ;-) > > The crux is-- I really don't like this social thing that gives work > more importance than spending time with the children. It's a USA > thing, that my friends from Spain have commented on a few times. A > stereo-type, sorta. Not I, but still. > > Like, I was dissapointed that the chicks at work get X amount of > family leave when a kid is born, but the dudes don't get squat. Some > places are more "forward thinking", and have paternal leave and > whatnot, but I think it's the minority. > > I love having workplaces where you can take the kids. I said "you go > girl" when I saw Palin with the babe at the tit, working it. Maybe > she's got the other kids around all the time too. I shouldn't have > jumped to conclusions, but Beth with her is sorta like us with > Richardson-- proximity gives accuracy, to a certain point. > Diminishing returns and all that, no one can know what all goes on in > a family, not even the family. > > It was a good springboard for discussion tho, sorta. Stones aside. > >> As Tim says, you do what you have to do. > > Yep, I've said it too. (although "have to" is interesting, philosophically) > > .... >> least some success (I think). It's worth noting that there are studies >> showing that resilient children tend to occur in families where they >> are occasionally left the hell alone. Resilient is good; I will take >> resilient. > > I'm not advocating smothering! Some of this has to do with > independence. Feeling safe, sorta. > Avoiding negative attention being as good as positive, or whatever, and > whatnot. > >> So I guess what I would like to say to both you and to Beth is that I >> hear you but I think you both need to lighten up and realize that in >> ten years you will probably disagree with yourself :) > > I will never disagree with the generalities that I've stated. LOL. > > I've been studying this stuff a long time, and while I've revised my > stances along the way, it's pretty clear what's pretty good, you know? > And, conversely, what's not so good (Doable, sure, but we're talking > bests here). Whether X parent is good or bad (or is even > constructive), is debatable, of course. > > Do your best, and that's good enough for me. > > :Denny > > -- > Best... man, there's another one of those words. ~ > The purpose of learning is growth, and our minds, unlike our bodies, > can continue growing as we continue to live. > Mortimer Adler > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:268289 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
