I hear ya, three fingers pointing back! Yes, tabling for now too, sall good.
Thanks for the discussion! :D -- There is only one situation I can think of in which men and women make an effort to read better than they usually do. It is when they are in love and reading a love letter. Mortimer Adler On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Dana wrote: > Me I think what matters is knowing that someone gives a damn. Not > necessarily whether mommy is home baking cookies. I think you make > several good points but... well, this is another post I should not be > trying to answer while at work, bottom line. More later. My overall > point though is that while I very much disagree with Palin on many > things, most especially including contraception, I think we should not > be feeding the fingerpointing. We. Do. Not. Know. > > more later. > > On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 3:20 PM, denstar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:58 AM, Dana wrote: >>> They may well affect my perception of the situation. I suspect that >>> what youare saying also stems from some family observation about >>> absent parents. But it matters whether the child is abandoned or >>> simply not always in one single person's care. I think that's an >>> artificial Hollywood expectation and possibly harmful. >> >> What I'm saying comes from years of observing parents and children in >> general. >> >> I've seen great outcomes with kids raised by absent parents, or I >> should say, extended family. >> >> I've seen the feral side of child rearing, on the mean streets of 'burque. >> >> I've seen the single mother or father, struggling to get by. >> >> I've had direct experience with all of the above, over a period of years. >> >> I think there is a difference between say, being *unable* to give your >> kids the attention they need, and being *unwiling* (Nietzsche's >> thoughts about willpower/ability aside ;]). >> >> I know how the "real world" works, I've consistently said "optimal", >> ya know? If the world were perfect-- both parents, as well as >> extended family, and the community/world, could and would be learning >> them kids. >> >> I think you've experienced some sorta similar type stuff, things >> "average" people haven't and whatnot. It's interesting to get your >> take, not on the stone throwing, but on being around. >> >>> But what I am saying here also comes from time on the ground, you know >>> what I mean? I understand what you are saying, that parents are >>> important, and for what it is worth I agree. However, it also occurs >>> to me that the people who are casting the stones here each have just >>> one, very young, child. At that stage of parenthood I thought there >>> was one optimal way to do this stuff too. >> >> It's not that it's one way, I just think it's the "best" way(s). Time >> proven, even. >> >> Casting stones is lame, but I don't feel as bad judging people who >> judge-- Which is still pretty lame, if you ask me. >> >> The Republicans seem to want to push their ways on the rest of the >> population, and by ways I mean beliefs. >> >> Teaching "abstinence only" is dangerous, bottom line, and based not on >> facts, but belief. Pushing creationism as an alternative, while >> saying it's a fight for everyone's freedom? "The Right" has let >> evangelical, X brand Christian's co-opt them, and it shows, not just >> in statements to the media, but actual law, and programs offered. And >> always seem to be judging. >> Doesn't make it right for me to do it, though. >> >> I'm no expert parent! Nor a perfect one. I want the best for the >> kiddos, bottom line, and "optimal" is, I guess you're right, relative. >> >> And although I'm a relatively new parent, I'm not new to raising >> "children". Everyone is unique (just like everyone else). I love >> that it takes different strokes for different folks. I have spent a >> lot of time thinking about it. Mom's a teacher, and somehow education >> figures into what I'm saying... involvement, sorta. >> >> I've been working in childcare for 10+ years, doing what I can to >> raise standards here in The State. Cutting down on paperwork, >> fleshing out process/mission-- to give the caregivers more time to >> give care, mostly-- I'm decent at it, and I like it. Doesn't pay very >> well though... and I got to start thinking about my scions... ;-) >> >> The crux is-- I really don't like this social thing that gives work >> more importance than spending time with the children. It's a USA >> thing, that my friends from Spain have commented on a few times. A >> stereo-type, sorta. Not I, but still. >> >> Like, I was dissapointed that the chicks at work get X amount of >> family leave when a kid is born, but the dudes don't get squat. Some >> places are more "forward thinking", and have paternal leave and >> whatnot, but I think it's the minority. >> >> I love having workplaces where you can take the kids. I said "you go >> girl" when I saw Palin with the babe at the tit, working it. Maybe >> she's got the other kids around all the time too. I shouldn't have >> jumped to conclusions, but Beth with her is sorta like us with >> Richardson-- proximity gives accuracy, to a certain point. >> Diminishing returns and all that, no one can know what all goes on in >> a family, not even the family. >> >> It was a good springboard for discussion tho, sorta. Stones aside. >> >>> As Tim says, you do what you have to do. >> >> Yep, I've said it too. (although "have to" is interesting, philosophically) >> >> .... >>> least some success (I think). It's worth noting that there are studies >>> showing that resilient children tend to occur in families where they >>> are occasionally left the hell alone. Resilient is good; I will take >>> resilient. >> >> I'm not advocating smothering! Some of this has to do with >> independence. Feeling safe, sorta. >> Avoiding negative attention being as good as positive, or whatever, and >> whatnot. >> >>> So I guess what I would like to say to both you and to Beth is that I >>> hear you but I think you both need to lighten up and realize that in >>> ten years you will probably disagree with yourself :) >> >> I will never disagree with the generalities that I've stated. LOL. >> >> I've been studying this stuff a long time, and while I've revised my >> stances along the way, it's pretty clear what's pretty good, you know? >> And, conversely, what's not so good (Doable, sure, but we're talking >> bests here). Whether X parent is good or bad (or is even >> constructive), is debatable, of course. >> >> Do your best, and that's good enough for me. >> >> :Denny >> >> -- >> Best... man, there's another one of those words. ~ >> The purpose of learning is growth, and our minds, unlike our bodies, >> can continue growing as we continue to live. >> Mortimer Adler >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/message.cfm/messageid:268294 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
