> -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Stroz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:58 AM > To: cf-community > Subject: Re: What Does THIS Mean? > > You do realize that a lot of our current laws (theft and murder, for > example) are based on religious beliefs?
No - those religious beliefs on based on our social beliefs. Religion often coops fundamental beliefs, but they are not religious in origin but secular. Consider the 10 commandments (which I'm sure we can agree could be considered the "most important" ethical and social rules in Biblical Christianity at least): +) I'm God. No other God. No idols! +) Don't take the Lord's Name in vain! +) Keep the Sabbath Holy! Clearly there are no secular laws concerning these. These are purely religious beliefs that do not translate into secular America. Most of them are also ignored by the faithful as well... at least if the contention that "most Americans" are faithful is true. The attention lavished on most celebrities can be considered nothing less than idolatry. Taking the lord's name in vain is a national pastime. Considering the popularity of Sunday football and "The Simpsons" there's not a whole lot of people "keeping things Holy" on the Sabbath. +) Don't covet your neighbor's house (or field, or animals or slaves). +) Don't covet your neighbor's wife. America is built upon coveting. No laws against it - never will be. +) Honor thy mother and father. A good idea, no doubt - but there's no law to enforce it. However it's also pretty clear that religion plays little in the evolution of this behavior. We have very good evidence that elders in Neolithic society were cared for and we can even see this behavior in Chimp and Gorillas groups. So - at this point - we can see that fully 60% of the commandments don't actually translate, at all, into our secular legal system. Over half of them. +) No false witness! This one is on the fence. There are laws against perjury (an obstacle to the working of the legal system) and fraud (which is basically a form of theft), of course, but lying in general is rampant and for the most part unpunished by the legal system. +) No adultery! Again, this one is on the fence. There is no federal guideline, of course, making this a state issue. Right now only half the states have adultery laws and, of those, they range in severity from being "lewd" with somebody to actually cohabitating regardless of sexual activities. Adultery laws are, perhaps more than any other, most likely based on religious teachings. Although there are religious societies that condone adultery most do not (and many are also polygamous). However it's also telling that most religious societies use adultery rules most often against wives rather than husbands (in the most extreme cases adultery is punishable by death - usually for the woman). However there are also clear biological signs, mostly to do with the selfish propagation self, that could easily lead to this belief. Male lions will often kill the cubs of a "loose" lioness for example. Both of these two are on the fence, but it's also pretty clear that while they may have shaped some aspects of law the law often differs from (or ignores) the commandment. So we're left with 80% of the commandments either ignored completely by secular law or questionably implemented at best. +) No murder! +) No stealing! Here's the biggies! These are clearly inspired by religion, right?! Well, no. Every society has laws against murder and theft. Secular, non-secular, what-have-you. Even those that condone ritualistic or punitive murder (like many of our own states) have laws against the murder of citizens. At a minimum it's very clear that these proscriptions extend much further back than Christianity. The first two items in the Code of Ur-Nammu (about 2100 BC) are laws against murder and robbery. But we can go further than that. Most higher social animals clearly have conventions about murder. Dolphins, gorillas, chimps, etc will ostracize or exile killers. Theft is less clear in the Animal kingdom, but the shape of it is still present. Members of the group that are generous and giving receive attention and gifts in return, members that steal, horde, etc. are punished. > You do realize that the a lot of the framers of the Constitution were > men of faith? Yes - you do realize that many were not? Of course they all agreed in the end that religion should NOT play a foundational role in the creation of the United States. > Sorry, but comparing a small minority of conservatives to the Taliban > is as > offensive and ridiculous as comapring a small group or liberals to > socialists or marxists. I agree. Jim Davis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:278026 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.5
