Thank you for posting this. It actually does help gain some perspective having a definition of the different players and their positions.
I can agree that it could look like an RPG. I can agree that the decision would be made to engage that guy. That's a bit of a misnomer though considering they request to engage for about a minute and a half, long before the guy shoulders the RPG, so in this situation it wasn't a snap decision to protect themselves. But even ignoring that understanding can only go so far. It's hard to give these guys a pass when you can hear in a few of their voices how fucking badly they want to open up on this group. Which is even understandable. The van though is out and out murder. The guy begging the wounded to grab a weapon (which is nowhere in sight because he didn't have one) so he can finish him off is revolting to me. Lying to his command so he can open up on the civilian collecting wounded is just fucking murder man. Full stop. I know I can't understand it. I've never been. What I do know is this. Soldiers (like law enforcement, paramedics, firemen etc) are paid to handle the pressures of their chosen profession. Because despite how hard of a job it is, it's still a chosen profession. No one was drafted into it. And not every soldier needs to turn into a cold blooded murderer to cope with combat, otherwise this would be every mission. I agree there needs to be great amount of latitude provided to front-line soldiers, but it's not a free pass to act like a raiding Mongol. On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Bruce Sorge <[email protected]> wrote: > > There were three elements operating there. Crazyhorse are the scout > weapons teams (the ones that fly the OH-58 Kiowa scout helicopters. We > had an element of Crazyhorse operating in our AO in Mosul as well). The > SWT do have weapons on their birds. They usually do not operate with the > Apaches unless they are operating in hunter-killer teams. In Iraq they > usually operate in pairs of Apaches or Kiowas though (at least this was > the case with us). Bushmaster seems to be the ones doing the firing > though I am not sure if they are Apaches since the weapons being fired > were NOT a 30mm Gatling gun which has a distinct sound, and Hotel who > seem to be soldiers in HMMV's on the ground. > > As far as why they are there, more than likely there was a ground > element in the area (Hotel perhaps?). Any time we went out into sector, > we ALWAYS had birds in the air providing air cover and reconing areas > that we were getting ready to head into. The SWT usually fly at or just > above rooftop level of the cities, the Apaches much higher for the > simple reason that the SWT are just that, scouts who need to be as > close to the ground as possible to see what is going on. (these guys > have balls too, they fly with NO doors on their birds and only a chicken > vest and a sidearm). > > Anyway, by looking at the video it seems to me that the guy peering from > behind a wall, crouched down with a dark tube sticking out that he could > have very well been an RPG gunner. From the video it looked like it > anyway, and had I not known that it was a large camera lens, I would > have agreed with the pilots that it was in fact an RPG. I suppose they > could have loitered around a bit longer to be sure, but then again, had > they done that, and had it been an RPG, it would have been way too late. > Snap decisions HAVE to be made even if it means that innocent people get > killed. > > As far as why they (the cameraman) were there who knows, only the > cameramen and their bosses know and it appears that their bosses are > only interested in telling THEIR side of the story minus the whys of > their being there. > > I do feel badly for the families, but there is still a thing called > collateral damage. We go through great lengths to avoid it, even at the > risk of our own safety sometimes. It sucks but it is life. So go ahead > and rant about the evil mean war machine that seems only interested in > killing innocent civilians. Unless you have been there you will never > understand. > > > >> JJ, I call shenanigans on most of what you wrote. The delay from firing > to > >> impact suggests the heli was over a mile away when it engaged. Clearly > not > >> in _any_ imminent danger. The crew was dying to engage. They saw what > they > >> wanted to see. They were jonesing to light up the wounded man hoping he > >> would go for a weapon so they could engage again. It's tragic yes, but > it's > >> also f'n needless. Stop making excuses. And they didn't "change gears" > when > >> they realized there was kids. The video ends by saying "don't bring your > >> kids to a battle zone" and then giggling about it. Changing gears from > >> douche to superdouche perhaps. > >> > >> > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? 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