On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 5:10 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 1:30 AM, Judah McAuley <[email protected]> wrote: >> > I have more >> scorn for someone that steals a car stereo because they are bored or >> it looks cool than I do for someone that shop lifts to pick up food >> for their kids. Both things are illegal. I have more moral problems >> with the first than I do the second, however. > > Do you know what they call a person who shop lifts to feed their family? > > A thief. > > Is it OK if they steal a car stereo, sell it and then use that money > to buy food to feed their family? Its the same motivation, just > slightly different crime.
Yes, Scott, it is stealing. And I would steal to feed my kids if that is the only option I had. Would you? I'd like to think that I would have other options and make it unnecessary to steal, but I would certainly do so if that's what I needed to do for my kids. That isn't a legal argument, it is a moral argument. It is still illegal. Laws don't equal morality in my world however. >> But if they are otherwise law abiding, working hard, trying to make it in a >> tough world, then I don't see how they are really doing all that much >> damage to the social compact. > > Should someone who killed a pedophile not even be arrested because > they did not do much damage to the 'social compact' (You could even > argue that they did some good) Of course they should be arrested. People who enforce laws are supposed to enforce laws. That has nothing to do with the morality of the situation, however. If someone sexually abused my daughter and I felt that the only way to keep her safe was to eliminate the person who was the threat, I would feel morally justified in doing so. It would still be illegal and I would still expect to be arrested if caught. Once again, legaility != morality. You seem to think I was trying to say that sneaking into the country to try and feed your kids should be legal. I said no such thing. I said that I have empathy for the people who do so and I can understand doing so myself. It is still breaking the law. But that doesn't make it morally reprehensible, in my view. > Using your example above, of a 'law abiding' illegal immigrant (which > is an oxymoron), would you be OK with them being arrested for tax > evasion? If they work here, and do not pay taxes, nor report that > income, it is a crime. The mere fact that someone is here illegally > makes it impossible for them to be 'law abiding'. They will not pay > taxes. They will not report income to the IRS. They break the law > every minute they are here. That is not someone I would call 'law > abiding'. Law abiding illegal immigrant is by no means an oxymoron. Tell me, Scott, have you ever exceeded the speed limit in your life? I'm willing to bet you broken a law at some point in your life. Yet, by and large, you are a law abiding citizen. You take care of your family, you work hard, you are intelligent and contribute and I think that your community is better for having you around. I guess that my fundamental belief here is that illegal immigrants are not necessarily bad people. Some of them are, but their immigration status is not what determines that for me. And for the people that are good, productive members of society, I want to find a way to make it legal for them to be here and encourage their good behavior while removing those that aren't good members of society. You seem to disagree. Juda ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Want to reach the ColdFusion community with something they want? Let them know on the House of Fusion mailing lists Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:316753 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
