In contrast the Treaty of Tripoli in 1795 clearly states that: Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
Now if the US was clearly as Christian as you claim, then would this treaty have been unanimously ratified in the Senate, or would President Washington have so strongly supported the treaty? Nor would there have been such strong popular support - given that the entire text of the treaty was published in the New York and Philadelphia papers at the time. Remember also that most of those states you cited were also quite strong slave states. Most Christian indeed. On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 10:36 PM, Jerry Barnes <[email protected]> wrote: > > "If the founders had been Christian or Jewish and believed in that GOD, they > would have said so. They certainly had no problem expressing themselves." > > Interesting. A lot of people believe that the founders were overwhelmingly > Christian. For example, the House Judiciary Committee in 1854 said the > following: > > Religion must be considered as the foundation on which the whole structure > rests. In this age there can be no substitute for Christianity; the great > conservative element on which we must rely for the purity and permanence of > free institutions. > > Whereas, the people of these United States, from their earliest history to > the present time, have been led by the hand of a kind Providence and are > indebted for the countless blessings of the past and present, and dependent > for continued prosperity in the future upon Almighty God; and whereas the > great vital and conservative element in our system is the belief of our > people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of the gospel of Jesus > Christ, it eminently becomes the representatives of a people so highly > favored to acknowledge in the most public manner their reverence for God: > therefore, Resolved, That the daily sessions of this body be opened with > prayer and that the ministers of the Gospel in this city are hereby > requested to attend and alternately perform this solemn duty > > There certainly can be no doubt as to the practice of employing chaplains in > deliberative bodies previous to the adoption of the Constitution. We are, > then, prepared to see if any change was made in that respect in the new > order of affairs. . . . On the 1st day of May [1789], Washingtons first > speech was read to the House, and the first business after that speech was > the appointment of Dr. Linn as chaplain. By whom was this plan made? Three > out of six of that joint committee were members of the Convention that > framed the Constitution. Madison, Ellsworth, and Sherman passed directly > from the hall of the [Constitutional] Convention to the hall of Congress. > Did they not know what was constitutional? . . . It seems to us that the men > who would raise the cry of danger in this state of things would cry fire on > the 39th day of a general deluge. . . . But we beg leave to rescue ourselves > from the imputation of asserting that religion is not needed to the safety > of civil society. It must be considered as the foundation on which the whole > structure rests. Laws will not have permanence or power without the sanction > of religious sentimentwithout a firm belief that there is a Power above us > that will reward our virtues and punish our vices > > There were some religious clauses in the state constitutions at the time. > > *Delaware*; Article 22 (1776) "Every person who shall be chosen a member of > either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust...shall...also > make and subscribe the following declaration, to whit: > > 'I,_____, do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only > Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do > acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by > divine inspiration'" > > *Georgia*; Article VI (1777) "The representatives shall be chosen out of the > residents in each county...and they shall be of the Protestant religion..." > > *Maryland*; Article XXXII (1776) "...All persons, professing the Christian > religion, are equally entitled to protection their religious liberty...the > Legislature may, in their discretion, lay a general tax and equal tax, for > the support of the Christian religion." > > *Maryland*; Article XXXV (1776) "That no other test or qualification ought > to be required...than such oath of support and fidelity to this State...and > a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion." > > *Massachusetts*; First Part, Article II (1780) "It is the right as well as > the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship > the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe..." > > *Massachusetts*; First Part, Article II (1780) "The governor shall be chosen > annually; and no person shall be eligible to this office, unless...he shall > declare himself to be of the Christian religion." > > *Massachusetts*; Chapter VI, Article I (1780) "[All persons elected to State > office or to the Legislature must] make and subscribe the following > declaration, viz. > > 'I,_____, do declare, that I believe the Christian religion, and have firm > persuasion of its truth...'" > > *New Hampshire*; Part 2, (1784) "[Provides that no person be elected > governor, senator, representative or member of the Council] who is not of > the protestant religion." > > *New Jersey*; Article XIX (1776) "...no Protestant inhabitant of this Colony > shall be denied the enjoyment of any civil right...; all persons, professing > a belief in the faith of any Protestant sect...shall be capable of being > elected into any office of profit or trust, or being a member of either > branch of the Legislature." > > *North Carolina*; Article XXXII (1776) "That no person, who shall deny the > being of God or the truth of the Protestant religion, or the divine > authority either of the Old or New Testaments,...shall be capable of holding > any office or place of trust or profit in the civil department within this > State. > > *Pennsylvania*; Declaration of Rights II (1776) "...Nor can any man, who > acknowledges the being of a God, be justly deprived or abridged to any civil > right as a citizen, on account of his religious sentiments or peculiar mode > of religious worship." > > *Pennsylvania*; Frame of Government, Section 10 (1776) "And each member [of > the legislature]...shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz.: > > > 'I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the > rewarder to the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge > the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine > inspiration.'" > > *Pennsylvania*; Article IX, Section 4 (1790) "that no person, who > acknowledges the being of a God, and a future state of rewards and > punishments, shall, on account of his religious sentiments, be disqualified > to hold any office or place of trust or profit under this commonwealth." > > *South Carolina*; Article III (1778) "[State officers and privy council to > be] all of the Protestant religion." > > *South Carolina*; Article XII (1778) "...no person shall be eligible to a > seat in the said senate unless he be of the Protestant religion." > *South Carolina*; Article XXXVIII (1778) "That all persons and religious > societies who acknowledge that there is one God, and a future state of > rewards and punishments, and that God is publicly to be worshipped, shall be > freely tolerated. The Christian Protestant religion shall be deemed...to be > the established religion of this State." > > *Vermont*; Declaration of Rights, III (1777) "...nor can any man who > professes the protestant religion, be justly deprived or abridged of any > civil right, as a citizen, on account of his religious sentiment...; > nevertheless, every sect or denomination of people ought to observe the > Sabbath, or the Lord's day..." > > *Vermont*; Frame of Government, Section 9 (1777) "And each member [of the > legislature],...shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz.: > > 'I do believe in one god, the Creator and Governor of the universe, the > rewarder of the good and punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the > scriptures of the old and new testament to be given by divine inspiration, > and own and profess the protestant religion.'" > > If one takes the time to review these, there seems to be theme. > Representatives of the state should be Protestant. So, one has to ask, > where the framers and signers of the Declaration of Independence and > Constitution representatives of their states or did they just show up. > > > J > > === > > I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I > think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in > poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled > much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions > were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course > became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more > they did for themselves, and became richer. - Benjamin Frankli > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology-Michael-Dinowitz/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:320683 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
