Rats! Foiled again. On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Medic <[email protected]> wrote: > > Would you see a row boat from a 100,000 feet? > > /me runs > > On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Is it safe to assume you feel the same way about the US? >> >> Funny how we do not see you rallying for the rights of Native >> Americans like you do for those in Gaza. >> >> Funny, when you look at my analogy from the 100,000 foot overview, row >> boat and aircraft carriers are both boats. So, maybe there are the >> same. Except when you get into the details. That is where your analogy >> fails. >> >> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Eric Roberts >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > The big one is a non-native population moves in and takes the land for >> the >> > native people and then continues to discriminate against and oppress >> them. >> > I think that pretty much covers it. More like comparing and aircraft >> > carrier with an aircraft carrier. >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Scott Stroz [mailto:[email protected]] >> > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:37 PM >> > To: cf-community >> > Subject: Re: Israel attacks and kills peace activists in international >> > waters. >> > >> > >> > See my row boat/aircraft carrier analogy. They have many similarities >> > as well. And many more differences. >> > >> > On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:32 PM, Eric Roberts >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> Many people, even outside the muslim world, think there are many >> >> similarities. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Scott Stroz [mailto:[email protected]] >> >> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:31 PM >> >> To: cf-community >> >> Subject: Re: Israel attacks and kills peace activists in international >> >> waters. >> >> >> >> >> >> I think its a far stretch to compare Israel to apartheid in South >> Africa. >> >> >> >> Are there some similarities? Sure. Just like an row boat has some >> >> similarities with an air craft carrier. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Eric Roberts >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> I was listening to a guy on a news broadcast talk about how the >> >>> anti-apartheid movement in South Africa started very similarly...it was >> > on >> >>> the fringe with some pretty radical actions that brought the injustice >> > out >> >>> of the shadows and into the daylight for the world to see. One the cat >> >> was >> >>> out of the bag, the global movement snowballed until it was so huge >> that >> >> it >> >>> became a force of nature that the government of SA couldn't stop. I >> > think >> >>> that is starting to happen in regard to Israeli treatment of the >> >>> Palestinians, particularly in Gaza. >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> From: Scott Stroz [mailto:[email protected]] >> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:22 PM >> >>> To: cf-community >> >>> Subject: Re: Israel attacks and kills peace activists in international >> >>> waters. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> I think a lot of people can agree that there may have been better (or >> >>> smarter) ways to accomplish this. >> >>> >> >>> I honestly do not think this was their intention. I think their >> >>> intention was to provoke Israel, nothing else. They succeeded in that. >> >>> And Israel succeeded in over reacting to the provocation. >> >>> >> >>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Eric Roberts >> >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> The better action is to break the blockade and shed as much light on >> it >> >> as >> >>>> possible....otherwise nothing will improve. Just going through >> normal >> >>>> channels, which people don't trust in the first place...is continuing >> > the >> >>>> status quo. >> >>>> >> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>> From: G Money [mailto:[email protected]] >> >>>> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:05 PM >> >>>> To: cf-community >> >>>> Subject: Re: Israel attacks and kills peace activists in international >> >>>> waters. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> As well you should be. Eric, you should be too. >> >>>> >> >>>> If these people's #1 concern was helping the residents of Gaza, they >> >> would >> >>>> have sent their supplies through the existing channels to ensure they >> >> made >> >>>> it to the people who are suffering, then challenged the blockade in >> some >> >>>> other fashion. >> >>>> >> >>>> If, instead, their #1 agenda item was to create a situation with >> Israel >> >>> that >> >>>> shined a light on it's blockade, they would have tried to get their >> > goods >> >>>> through the blockade. >> >>>> >> >>>> Guess which method they chose. >> >>>> >> >>>> Just something to keep in mind. There's no altruism here. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Scott Stroz <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> So, in other words, they have an agenda. And people have this >> >>>>> incredible ability to do whatever it takes to push their agenda. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I am just as leery of these folks' account of the events as I am of >> >>>>> Israel's >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Eric Roberts >> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > I would say they have more of a reason to just be truthful as they >> > are >> >>>>> > trying to add legitimacy to their claims and gain world support to >> > end >> >>>>> the >> >>>>> > illegal blockade of Gaza. I would say this especially in the light >> > of >> >>>>> > Israeli claims that have been shown to be false and manipulated. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> > From: Scott Stroz [mailto:[email protected]] >> >>>>> > Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 11:37 AM >> >>>>> > To: cf-community >> >>>>> > Subject: Re: Israel attacks and kills peace activists in >> > international >> >>>>> > waters. >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > I understand your position there, but is it not a bit naive to >> think >> >>>>> > that those on the other side do not have an agenda and to accept >> >>>>> > everything they say as the full, complete, unbiased account of the >> >>>>> > events? >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > Do you really think that CNN, or any other news agency, does not >> have >> >>>>> > an agenda or a bias? >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:29 PM, Eric Roberts >> >>>>> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> It would depend on the source. If it came from the Israeli >> >>>>> > government...no. >> >>>>> >> I don't trust anything coming out of that government. They have >> >>>> already >> >>>>> >> demonstrated that they are willing to lie and modify things to >> make >> >>>> look >> >>>>> >> favorable to them. I kinda look at them like I look at Fox News. >> I >> >>>>> will >> >>>>> >> give you the benefit of the doubt until you prove me wrong. >> Israel >> >>> has >> >>>>> > lied >> >>>>> >> and misled with their press releases and thus proven me wrong. >> You >> >>> get >> >>>>> > one >> >>>>> >> chance. Destroy that trust and you are hard pressed to get it >> back. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> >> From: Scott Stroz [mailto:[email protected]] >> >>>>> >> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 11:23 AM >> >>>>> >> To: cf-community >> >>>>> >> Subject: Re: Israel attacks and kills peace activists in >> >> international >> >>>>> >> waters. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> Somehow I do not think you would be so quick to accept 'testimony' >> >>>>> >> from 3 Israeli soldiers as 'corroboration'. >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Eric Roberts >> >>>>> >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> Eyewitness accounts that tell the same story...that's called >> >>>>> >> corroboration. >> >>>>> >>> Add that to the fact that we know for a fact that the Israelis >> >>>> doctored >> >>>>> >>> footage. Makes the passengers much more of a reliable witness to >> >> the >> >>>>> >>> events. >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> >>> From: Scott Stroz [mailto:[email protected]] >> >>>>> >>> Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 11:06 AM >> >>>>> >>> To: cf-community >> >>>>> >>> Subject: Re: Israel attacks and kills peace activists in >> >>> international >> >>>>> >>> waters. >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> And I am sure the news producer from Al Jazeera and those >> involved >> >>> are >> >>>>> >>> giving a completely unbiased accounts of what happened. >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Eric Roberts >> >>>>> >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> Some accounts of passengers on the aid ship...these are all >> > British >> >>>>> >>>> citizens... >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWYKHcwrak0 >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gp8ECrDQLg&feature=watch_response >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i5VzDH8SDU&feature=related >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> >>>> From: denstar [mailto:[email protected]] >> >>>>> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 9:48 PM >> >>>>> >>>> To: cf-community >> >>>>> >>>> Subject: Re: Israel attacks and kills peace activists in >> >>>> international >> >>>>> >>>> waters. >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Maureen wrote: >> >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>> It's especially bothersome that so much of the current rhetoric >> > is >> >>>>> >>>>> based on disinformation. I found this article particularly >> >>>>> >>>>> enlightening. >> >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>>>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> >>> >> > >> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/06/04/MNR51DPCVM.DTL >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> You don't say! >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> :Den >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> -- >> >>>>> >>>> The truth is a snare: you cannot have it, without being caught. >> > You >> >>>>> >>>> cannot have the truth in such a way that you catch it, but only >> in >> >>>>> >>>> such a way that it catches you. >> >>>>> >>>> Soren Kierkegaar >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >>> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >
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