The reports of the NASA I think carry more weight than a set of opinions.
Moreover the questions can be very easily manipulated to get any conclusion
you want. Therefore, physical data is of greater weight than a questionnaire
survey.

larry

--
Larry C. Lyons
ColdFusion/Web Developer
Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
EBStor.com
8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204
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tel:   (703) 393-7930
fax:   (703) 393-2659
Web:   http://www.ebstor.com
       http://www.pacel.com
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
--

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:26 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> 
> 
> Larry,
> 
> Don't you think that the people who were polled have access to the
> "physical measurement?"  These people are experts in their field.  I
> think they would know better than you.  So if I asked members of the
> Meteorological Society and the American Geophysical Society if they
> thought, based on the evidence if global warming was a serious threat
> and they said "No" and then I asked you and you said "Yes" 
> who should I
> believe?  We all know scientific data can be distorted any number of
> ways.  I tend to believe the experts.  Just like the former 
> President of
> the National Academy of Sciences.  He must be wrong though, 
> what does he
> know.
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:19 AM
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> 
> Physical measurement is far stronger evidence than opinion polls.
> 
> Besides argument from authority is not a valid argument.
> 
> --
> Larry C. Lyons
> ColdFusion/Web Developer
> Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
> EBStor.com
> 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204
> Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795
> tel:   (703) 393-7930
> fax:   (703) 393-2659
> Web:   http://www.ebstor.com
>        http://www.pacel.com
> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
> --
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:13 AM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> > 
> > 
> > Here Larry,
> > 
> > There is obviously evidence that goes both ways:  Check the 
> last one,
> > obviously not everyone who is or was associated with the National
> > Academy of Sciences agrees.  This is hard data, that you 
> > prefer to rely
> > on:
> > 
> > A Gallup poll found that only 17 percent of the members of the
> > Meteorological Society and the American Geophysical Society 
> think that
> > the warming of the 20th century has been a result of greenhouse gas
> > emissions - principally CO2 from burning fossil fuels.  
> > 
> > (Those guys would seem to be "reputable") 
> > 
> > Only 13 percent of the scientists responding to a survey 
> conducted by
> > the environmental organization Greenpeace (My Quote Here: You 
> > think they
> > would be biased wouldn't you?) believe catastrophic climate 
> > change will
> > result from continuing current patterns of energy use. 
> > 
> > More than 100 noted scientists, including the former 
> president of the
> > National Academy of Sciences, signed a letter declaring that costly
> > actions to reduce greenhouse gases are not justified by the best
> > available evidence.
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:01 AM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> > 
> > The scientific literature in peer reviewed journals of quality are
> > unanimous
> > about it. Global warming is occurring, and it follows with 
> > the increase
> > in
> > the emissions of greenhouse gasses by humans. The data are 
> quite clear
> > despite what certain ideologies state. The national academies of
> > sciences
> > has a very good site about the scientific evidence for warming, for
> > instance:
> > http://www4.nationalacademies.org/onpi/webextra.nsf/44bf87db30
> > 9563a08525
> > 66f2
> > 006d63bb/345cb310c049adb185256a840058568e?OpenDocument
> > 
> > To quote part of the document:
> > Part of the debate over global warming centers on 
> disparities between
> > the
> > surface temperature and upper-air temperature. While the 
> > Earth's surface
> > temperature has risen, data collected by satellites and 
> balloon-borne
> > instruments since 1979 indicate little if any warming of the 
> > low-to mid-
> > troposphere. The report concurs with a previous Research 
> > Council report
> > that
> > said despite these differences, "the warming trend in the 
> global mean
> > surface temperature observations during the past 20 years is 
> > undoubtedly
> > real and is substantially greater than the average rate of 
> warming in
> > the
> > 20th century." 
> > --
> > 
> > As I have said previously, I prefer hard data from reputable 
> > scientists
> > whose results are published in peer reviewed journals to 
> the output of
> > researchers who use dubious methods and come to very precarious
> > conclusions
> > that fit what their corporate or political masters want. 
> Its something
> > to do
> > with valid scientific research rather than ideology.
> > 
> > --
> > Larry C. Lyons
> > ColdFusion/Web Developer
> > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
> > EBStor.com
> > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204
> > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795
> > tel:   (703) 393-7930
> > fax:   (703) 393-2659
> > Web:   http://www.ebstor.com
> >        http://www.pacel.com
> > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
> > --
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:29 AM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I knew that "If global warming is real" sentence would catch 
> > > someone, I
> > > figured it would be Larry too.  I agree that the earth is 
> > > warming, what
> > > I don't agree with is the cause.  Mother Earth releases more 
> > > greenhouse
> > > gases than we do as humans, period.  The amount of fossil 
> > fuel we burn
> > > creates a miniscule amount of Greenhouse gases compared 
> to what the
> > > Earth releases itself.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 8:25 AM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> > > 
> > > If global warming is real? Then what does the American Academy of
> > > Sciences
> > > think that it is. What does the Bush Administration and the 
> > EPA think
> > > that
> > > it occurring.
> > > 
> > 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55031-2002Jun3.html To
> > > quote
> > > the article:
> > > 
> > > Impact of Climate Change Outlined 
> > > EPA Report Blames Humans, Prescribes Voluntary Measures 
> > > 
> > > By John Heilprin
> > > Associated Press
> > > Tuesday, June 4, 2002; Page A02 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > The Bush administration has outlined significant 
> > environmental impacts
> > > from
> > > climate change, possibly within decades, in a report to the United
> > > Nations.
> > > But the administration stood firm on its plans to address 
> > > heat-trapping
> > > "greenhouse" pollution by urging voluntary measures and 
> avoiding the
> > > Kyoto
> > > climate treaty.
> > > 
> > > For the first time, the administration laid most of the blame 
> > > for recent
> > > warming on human actions, pointing to fossil fuel burning 
> > > that releases
> > > carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases into the atmosphere,
> > > according
> > > to the report released by the Environmental Protection Agency.
> > > 
> > > "The changes observed over the last several decades are 
> > likely mostly
> > > due to
> > > human activities, but we cannot rule out that some 
> > significant part of
> > > these
> > > changes is also a reflection of natural variability," the 
> > report says.
> > > 
> > > The contents of the paper, submitted to the United Nations, 
> > were first
> > > reported yesterday by the New York Times.
> > > 
> > > The report also says that despite some lingering scientific
> > > uncertainties,
> > > "there is general agreement that the observed warming is 
> > real and has
> > > been
> > > particularly strong within the past 20 years."
> > > 
> > > Last year, the White House described climate change as a 
> > serious issue
> > > after
> > > consulting the National Academy of Sciences, but it was 
> > > undecided about
> > > how
> > > much of the problem should be blamed on human activities. 
> > > President Bush
> > > favors a climate plan with voluntary measures that would 
> > seek to slow
> > > the
> > > rate of growth in gas emissions but also would allow them 
> > to continue
> > > rising.
> > > 
> > > He opposes regulating carbon dioxide emissions from power 
> > > plants, unlike
> > > legislation sought by Sen. James M. Jeffords (I-Vt.), 
> > chairman of the
> > > Environment and Public Works Committee, and some Democrats.
> > > --
> > > 
> > > What is really laughable is the voluntary emissions program. 
> > > If its done
> > > the
> > > same way as what the then Governor Shrub set up the 
> > voluntary program
> > > for
> > > air pollution in Texas, then we would be seeing a really 
> > > large increase
> > > in
> > > greenhouse gases in the next couple of years.
> > > 
> > > larry
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Larry C. Lyons
> > > ColdFusion/Web Developer
> > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
> > > EBStor.com
> > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204
> > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795
> > > tel:   (703) 393-7930
> > > fax:   (703) 393-2659
> > > Web:   http://www.ebstor.com
> > >        http://www.pacel.com
> > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
> > > --
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:13 AM
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Well if Global Warming is real, then the amount of 
> > Methane Gas, much
> > > > more potent the Co2, that the Cows in Ireland release 
> > would have to
> > > > contribute to the Greenhouse effect and thus Reagan was right!
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:34 AM
> > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> > > > 
> > > > Sounds like you're emulating Reagan, who thought ducks caused 
> > > > acid rain
> > > > and
> > > > cows global warming. scary part of it was that he was serious.
> > > > 
> > > > larry
> > > > 
> > > > --
> > > > Larry C. Lyons
> > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer
> > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer
> > > > EBStor.com
> > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204
> > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795
> > > > tel:   (703) 393-7930
> > > > fax:   (703) 393-2659
> > > > Web:   http://www.ebstor.com
> > > >        http://www.pacel.com
> > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done.
> > > > --
> > > > 
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 5:25 PM
> > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Well poop....my ass is causing global warming...forget my 
> > > > > SUV.  We must
> > > > > tell mother nature to make more low emission 
> > > > gastrointestinal tracks.
> > > > > Where is Corporate Average Flatulence Emission Standards!
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> > > > > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:13 PM
> > > > > To: CF-Community
> > > > > Subject: Re: EU quota likely for flatulent cows
> > > > > 
> > > > > Restricted - HOW ?
> > > > > "put a cork in it" ??
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Gas emissions from flatulent cows could soon be 
> > > restricted by a EU
> > > > > quota system 
> > > > > > as penal as that imposed on milk production, an
> > > > > > agricultural expert has predicted.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Environmental scientist Professor Frank Convery claims 
> > > > cows breaking
> > > > > wind and 
> > > > > > belching account for 35% of Ireland's green-house gas
> > > > > > emissions. These have been linked to global climate change.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > "When you have an agricultural economy - we have over 
> > > > eight million
> > > > > cows in the 
> > > > > > Republic of Ireland - you end up producing a lot of
> > > > > > greenhouse gas. It's similar in Northern Ireland," he said.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > More here:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >
> > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/northern_ireland/newsid_66
> > > > 2000/66239
> > > > 7.stm
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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