Here Larry this report is from the NAS found on their website. Notice that he says "While the possible effect of greenhouse gas emissions remains speculative" -- doesn't sound like he is sold on the fact that Greenhouse Gas emissions cause global warming? Frontiers of Science: Global Climate Change - Jeff Severinghaus Frontiers of Science: Global Climate Change Abrupt Climate Change Inferred from Thermally-fractionated Gases in Polar Ice Jeff Severinghaus Scripps Institution of Oceanography
Recent discoveries from the Greenland ice core drilling program and from sediment cores in much of the world have demonstrated that the earth's climate warmed abruptly, in less than a decade and perhaps as little as three years, during and at the end of the lastice age some 11,000 years ago. The new view that is emerging from these studies is that the earth's climate system behaves more like a "switch" than a "dial". That is, climate appears to jump abruptly from one relatively stable state to another relatively stable state, much as light switch responds only after being pushed for some distance, and then it goes all at once. This fast speed of change stands in marked contrast to the gradual warming that is generally discussed in the context of greenhouse warming over the next 50 to 100 years. If for some reason such an abrupt event were to happen now, it would be far more destructive to society than the greenhouse-gas induced warming that is generally expected, because society's adaptation to a change is critically affected by the speed of the change. Some modeling studies suggest that greenhouse gas emissions may in fact trigger such a surprise. While the possible effect of greenhouse gas emissions remains speculative, there is no doubt that these abrupt events did occur in the past, and are a regular and characteristic feature of the climate system. In that sense, they are certain to occur again, though we cannot predict when. >From another NASA report: Global records of surface temperature over the last 100 years show a rise in global temperatures (about 0.5 degrees C overall), but the rise is marked by periods when the temperature has dropped as well. If the models cannot explain these marked variations from the trend, then we cannot be completely certain that we can believe in their predictions of changes to come. For example, in the early 1970's, because temperatures had been decreasing for about 25 to 30 years, people began predicting the approach of an ice age! For the last 15 to 20 years, we have been seeing a fairly steady rise in temperatures, giving some assurance that we are now in a global warming phase. (That seems inconclusive as well) We don't full understand how our atmosphere works. We can't even predict the weather. There is just too much we don't understand to make broad statements about Global Warming. That is why the scientific community is divided. There are "experts" on both sides of this issue. So needless to say I don't think they will ever agree. My solution is not to take action in haste, but rather over time solve the issue. -----Original Message----- From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:36 AM To: CF-Community Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows The reports of the NASA I think carry more weight than a set of opinions. Moreover the questions can be very easily manipulated to get any conclusion you want. Therefore, physical data is of greater weight than a questionnaire survey. larry -- Larry C. Lyons ColdFusion/Web Developer Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer EBStor.com 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 tel: (703) 393-7930 fax: (703) 393-2659 Web: http://www.ebstor.com http://www.pacel.com email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. -- > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:26 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > > Larry, > > Don't you think that the people who were polled have access to the > "physical measurement?" These people are experts in their field. I > think they would know better than you. So if I asked members of the > Meteorological Society and the American Geophysical Society if they > thought, based on the evidence if global warming was a serious threat > and they said "No" and then I asked you and you said "Yes" > who should I > believe? We all know scientific data can be distorted any number of > ways. I tend to believe the experts. Just like the former > President of > the National Academy of Sciences. He must be wrong though, > what does he > know. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:19 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > Physical measurement is far stronger evidence than opinion polls. > > Besides argument from authority is not a valid argument. > > -- > Larry C. Lyons > ColdFusion/Web Developer > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > EBStor.com > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > tel: (703) 393-7930 > fax: (703) 393-2659 > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > http://www.pacel.com > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > -- > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 10:13 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > > > > > Here Larry, > > > > There is obviously evidence that goes both ways: Check the > last one, > > obviously not everyone who is or was associated with the National > > Academy of Sciences agrees. This is hard data, that you > > prefer to rely > > on: > > > > A Gallup poll found that only 17 percent of the members of the > > Meteorological Society and the American Geophysical Society > think that > > the warming of the 20th century has been a result of greenhouse gas > > emissions - principally CO2 from burning fossil fuels. > > > > (Those guys would seem to be "reputable") > > > > Only 13 percent of the scientists responding to a survey > conducted by > > the environmental organization Greenpeace (My Quote Here: You > > think they > > would be biased wouldn't you?) believe catastrophic climate > > change will > > result from continuing current patterns of energy use. > > > > More than 100 noted scientists, including the former > president of the > > National Academy of Sciences, signed a letter declaring that costly > > actions to reduce greenhouse gases are not justified by the best > > available evidence. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:01 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > > > The scientific literature in peer reviewed journals of quality are > > unanimous > > about it. Global warming is occurring, and it follows with > > the increase > > in > > the emissions of greenhouse gasses by humans. The data are > quite clear > > despite what certain ideologies state. The national academies of > > sciences > > has a very good site about the scientific evidence for warming, for > > instance: > > http://www4.nationalacademies.org/onpi/webextra.nsf/44bf87db30 > > 9563a08525 > > 66f2 > > 006d63bb/345cb310c049adb185256a840058568e?OpenDocument > > > > To quote part of the document: > > Part of the debate over global warming centers on > disparities between > > the > > surface temperature and upper-air temperature. While the > > Earth's surface > > temperature has risen, data collected by satellites and > balloon-borne > > instruments since 1979 indicate little if any warming of the > > low-to mid- > > troposphere. The report concurs with a previous Research > > Council report > > that > > said despite these differences, "the warming trend in the > global mean > > surface temperature observations during the past 20 years is > > undoubtedly > > real and is substantially greater than the average rate of > warming in > > the > > 20th century." > > -- > > > > As I have said previously, I prefer hard data from reputable > > scientists > > whose results are published in peer reviewed journals to > the output of > > researchers who use dubious methods and come to very precarious > > conclusions > > that fit what their corporate or political masters want. > Its something > > to do > > with valid scientific research rather than ideology. > > > > -- > > Larry C. Lyons > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > EBStor.com > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > http://www.pacel.com > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > -- > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:29 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > > > > > > > > I knew that "If global warming is real" sentence would catch > > > someone, I > > > figured it would be Larry too. I agree that the earth is > > > warming, what > > > I don't agree with is the cause. Mother Earth releases more > > > greenhouse > > > gases than we do as humans, period. The amount of fossil > > fuel we burn > > > creates a miniscule amount of Greenhouse gases compared > to what the > > > Earth releases itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 8:25 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > > > > > If global warming is real? Then what does the American Academy of > > > Sciences > > > think that it is. What does the Bush Administration and the > > EPA think > > > that > > > it occurring. > > > > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55031-2002Jun3.html To > > > quote > > > the article: > > > > > > Impact of Climate Change Outlined > > > EPA Report Blames Humans, Prescribes Voluntary Measures > > > > > > By John Heilprin > > > Associated Press > > > Tuesday, June 4, 2002; Page A02 > > > > > > > > > The Bush administration has outlined significant > > environmental impacts > > > from > > > climate change, possibly within decades, in a report to the United > > > Nations. > > > But the administration stood firm on its plans to address > > > heat-trapping > > > "greenhouse" pollution by urging voluntary measures and > avoiding the > > > Kyoto > > > climate treaty. > > > > > > For the first time, the administration laid most of the blame > > > for recent > > > warming on human actions, pointing to fossil fuel burning > > > that releases > > > carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases into the atmosphere, > > > according > > > to the report released by the Environmental Protection Agency. > > > > > > "The changes observed over the last several decades are > > likely mostly > > > due to > > > human activities, but we cannot rule out that some > > significant part of > > > these > > > changes is also a reflection of natural variability," the > > report says. > > > > > > The contents of the paper, submitted to the United Nations, > > were first > > > reported yesterday by the New York Times. > > > > > > The report also says that despite some lingering scientific > > > uncertainties, > > > "there is general agreement that the observed warming is > > real and has > > > been > > > particularly strong within the past 20 years." > > > > > > Last year, the White House described climate change as a > > serious issue > > > after > > > consulting the National Academy of Sciences, but it was > > > undecided about > > > how > > > much of the problem should be blamed on human activities. > > > President Bush > > > favors a climate plan with voluntary measures that would > > seek to slow > > > the > > > rate of growth in gas emissions but also would allow them > > to continue > > > rising. > > > > > > He opposes regulating carbon dioxide emissions from power > > > plants, unlike > > > legislation sought by Sen. James M. Jeffords (I-Vt.), > > chairman of the > > > Environment and Public Works Committee, and some Democrats. > > > -- > > > > > > What is really laughable is the voluntary emissions program. > > > If its done > > > the > > > same way as what the then Governor Shrub set up the > > voluntary program > > > for > > > air pollution in Texas, then we would be seeing a really > > > large increase > > > in > > > greenhouse gases in the next couple of years. > > > > > > larry > > > > > > -- > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > EBStor.com > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > http://www.pacel.com > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > -- > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 9:13 AM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > > > > > > > > > > > Well if Global Warming is real, then the amount of > > Methane Gas, much > > > > more potent the Co2, that the Cows in Ireland release > > would have to > > > > contribute to the Greenhouse effect and thus Reagan was right! > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:34 AM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > > > > > > > Sounds like you're emulating Reagan, who thought ducks caused > > > > acid rain > > > > and > > > > cows global warming. scary part of it was that he was serious. > > > > > > > > larry > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > > EBStor.com > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > > http://www.pacel.com > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kevin Schmidt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 5:25 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: RE: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well poop....my ass is causing global warming...forget my > > > > > SUV. We must > > > > > tell mother nature to make more low emission > > > > gastrointestinal tracks. > > > > > Where is Corporate Average Flatulence Emission Standards! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 4:13 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: Re: EU quota likely for flatulent cows > > > > > > > > > > Restricted - HOW ? > > > > > "put a cork in it" ?? > > > > > > > > > > > Gas emissions from flatulent cows could soon be > > > restricted by a EU > > > > > quota system > > > > > > as penal as that imposed on milk production, an > > > > > > agricultural expert has predicted. > > > > > > > > > > > > Environmental scientist Professor Frank Convery claims > > > > cows breaking > > > > > wind and > > > > > > belching account for 35% of Ireland's green-house gas > > > > > > emissions. These have been linked to global climate change. > > > > > > > > > > > > "When you have an agricultural economy - we have over > > > > eight million > > > > > cows in the > > > > > > Republic of Ireland - you end up producing a lot of > > > > > > greenhouse gas. It's similar in Northern Ireland," he said. > > > > > > > > > > > > More here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/northern_ireland/newsid_66 > > > > 2000/66239 > > > > 7.stm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
