esp to the face of a completely different person. Possibly tear gas got thrown back into police lines -- it does look that way on one video but not by the guy who's in the hospital. I found him on a third video, just standing next to the flag. Practicing civil disobedience. Bah.
On Sun, Oct 30, 2011 at 3:51 PM, PT <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yeah, I can clearly see the flash-bang being tossed in. It is about the > right size and shape. I see it hit the ground and spark and sputter. > Some protesters notice and to to move, but then, BANG, it goes right off > at their feet. It is completely obvious what it is. > > Those things are kind of meant to be used in doors where the concussion > and light stun occupants long enough for them to be secured. All they > do outside is make people scatter for a few seconds. The risk of injury > from one exploding is more than any benefit in that kind of situation. > They might not be grenades, but they are explosive devices and the > police practically dropped one on the feet of the protesters. > > I am sure the police did feel threatened from time to time, but they can > suck it up. They are paid to be there and supposedly trained to handle > crowds without resorting to violence. They have helmets, body armor, > shields, face guards, shotguns, tazers, tear gas, batons and flash-bangs. > > If you throw tear gas at someone and they throw back the same canister > you so helpfully gave them, it does not warrant retaliation with a > shotgun blast to the face. Those less-lethal projectiles can, have and > will kill someone. No one should fire one of those weapons into an > unarmed crowd unless that person would be willing to use a live round in > the exact same situation. > > Police are not peace keepers. They are peace enforcers. Their mere > presence is already a threat display. Any overt acts of violence from > them are likely to be met with with the same. It might not be immediate > and might not be directed at the person committing the violence, but it > does increase the tension, anger and frustration in the general crowd. > If it builds up enough, someone is going to snap and then the flood > gates might open. > > I haven't been keeping track of what the officials have been doing, but > it seems like their attitudes have been a mixture of "shut them up", > "make them go away" and "I don't care about those people". Maybe if > someone would, you know, come out and directly address the protesters > and at least pretend to take their concerns seriously, it would go a > ways towards diffusing the situation. Shooing away frustrated people > with a lot of time on their hands is not solving a problem. Grow a pair > and use some of those leadership skills, eh? > > Hmm. Whatever happened to dogs and fire hoses? Are they passe? > > ----- > "Because I can lie beautiful true things into existence ..." > Neil Gaiman on Why I write. > > On 10/30/2011 5:59 PM, Dana wrote: >> >> yep there really is no question. You can see the -- whatever -- coming >> from the police lines. There is one place also (in fairness) where a >> teargas cannister gets thrown into police lines. But the ex-Marine >> that was hurt was not in that. He was just standing there next to the >> Veterans for Peace flag. Not yelling or anything. If you go through >> some of the youtube videos, you can see him on at least two different >> cameras. He failed to disperse, sure, apparently planned on being >> arrested, but otherwise did not provoke the police attack at all. >> >> And I think the video that showed how close they threw the flash-bang >> from was a local NBC affiliate's... they aren't exactly known for >> being stoner new agers. >> >> Still I want to be careful with my words. Some of the video can't be >> called unedited -- it has voiceover and a ring around particular >> police officers at a minimum. And this is true of footage of that >> flash-bang getting thrown in Oakland and of women getting >> pepper-sprayed in New York. But these videos make an accusation that >> really needs investigation and presumably that investigation would >> include a look at raw footage. I mean, look at the video. That girl in >> the orange top is screaming, and some of the guys run up, this after >> an order to disperse, ok, sure, but they are bending over the guy on >> the ground and not acting in a threatening manner at all. >> >> That Asian -- Filipino?-- woman's arrest made the front page of the >> San Jose paper, I just noticed, btw. The force is so disproportionate. >> One unarmed 90-pound woman, half a dozen police officers with batons. >> They were hitting her long after she was down, it looks like in the >> videos, and as best I can tell all she did before that was mouth off. >> Interestingly, several police officers were also filming, though, >> probably not that part -- they would have been more interested in >> documenting why they might feel threatened. So hey. They should make >> that footage public. That's what I say. I also wanna know why officer >> 327 felt he had to beat up a woman who does not appear to have fought >> back. Interesting side note, the resolution is good enough to confirm >> that he is on the Oakland force. That matters because Oakland police >> apparently have a protocol that was broken, and one question being >> raised was whether it would have applied to say a San Francisco police >> officer who was on loan. Apparently there were more than a dozen >> police forces participating. >> >> All in all, now that I *have* done some research I am dismayed and >> feel a little sick. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:343809 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
