I didn't say that the annexation of Canada wasn't a goal in the minds of some people. I said it wasn't a stated goal of the campaign, and it wasn't.
The total debt of the U.S. government is now: $15,661,574,232,598.82 The total income of the U.S. in 2011 was: $2,567,181,000,000 So yes our debt is far in excess of our income. Lets look at the ratios shall we. 34:127 = 3.6onandonandon vs. 2:15 = 7.5 So who has the worse debt to income ratio their? Also what was the income in 1815? Look, we both cultural and national biases here. However all I am arguing is that it was a dray, the treaty of Ghent, and the later treaty of Paris, basically show that. On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected]>wrote: > > jefferson said it was only a matter of marching to conquer Canada. It > was also the stated aim of the War Hawk faction. > > John Adams > The Unanimous Voice of the Continent is "Canada must be ours; Quebec > must be taken." > > Thomas Jefferson > The acquisition of Canada this year, as far as the neighborhood of > Quebec, will be a mere matter of marching, and will give us experience > for the attack of Halifax the next, and the final expulsion of England > from the American continent. > ~1812. In a letter to Colonel William Duane. > > Also here are a couple of articles you may find useful. > > Stagg, J.C.A. (January 1981). "James Madison and the Coercion of Great > Britain: Canada, the West Indies, and the War of 1812". William and > Mary Quarterly 38 (1): 334. doi:10.2307/1916855. JSTOR 1916855. > Stagg, John C.A. (1983). Mr. Madison's War: Politics, Diplomacy, and > Warfare in the Early American republic, 1783-1830. Princeton, NJ: > Princeton University Press. > > The US navy stronger? It was beached from 1913 on. The Macedonia and > United States were hulked. the Chesapeake and President were captured. > Another was destroyed on the blocks before it was captured. Most of > the east coast was blockaded with British able to strike at will - > just look at the US response to the Chesapeake campaign, not one US > warship tried to resist. > > And yest at the end of the war the US government was in worse shape > then than now. The war cost the US $105 million, about the same as the > cost to Britain. The national debt rose from $45 million in 1812 to > $127 million by the end of 1815. At the same time American exports > decreased from $130 million in 1807 to $7 million in 1814. Given that > the 1812 dollar is worth about 25 times as much as it is now, then > that is a major issue, especially considering the size of US economy > was much much smaller than it is now. The impact of the debt and cost > of the war was proportionately much larger in relation to the economy > than the current debt, especially considering that the government at > the time took in less than 34 million in gold in 1814. Last I looked > the proportion of the US debt to is still far less than the total > revenues of the US government from all sources. > > And yes I did mention the British blockade of the French coasts. I > take it you have no objection to private corporations trading with > Iran or North Korea - its the same objection that the British had at > the time. > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:15 PM, LRS Scout <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Wow, what I'm reading and have read about this conflict in no way > supports > > your claims. > > > > 1. It was never the stated American objective to seize Canada. That is > > something that Canadians like to say a lot, but it's simply not born out > by > > the facts. > > > > 2. The American Navy was stronger at the end of the war than it was at > the > > beginning, we went on to fight and win the 2nd Barbary war in 1815 with > > that Navy, finally breaking the backs of the pirates. > > > > 3. Money was likely one of the main real causes of the war. Britain had > > been seizing ships and crew and prohibiting us from trading witht he rest > > of the European continent. We were able to resume normal trade after the > > war. Objective met, Nyet Comrade? > > > > 4. We were in worse debt than now? Really Larry, you need to take a > look > > at the numbers there my friend, even accounting for inflation the debt > > incurred in no way matches our current budget, let alone out national > debt. > > > > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Larry C. Lyons <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > >> > >> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:31 AM, GMoney <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> > On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 10:26 AM, Larry C. Lyons < > [email protected] > >> >wrote: > >> > > >> >> > >> >> they did fight a war a few decades later and the americans got their > >> >> butts collectively handed to them. > >> >> > >> > > >> > Yeah, but we won when it counted! > >> > >> Last I checked Canada is still not a part of the US. That is what the > >> entire war of 1812 was about. When the treaty of Ghent was signed, the > >> British controlled more US territory than the US controlling Canadian > >> territory. The American merchant navy was in tatters, the US navy was > >> up on blocks. The American economy was shattered because of the lack > >> of trade with Britain, and the government was in worse debt than now. > >> There was a movement within Britain to continue the war and eliminate > >> the "American heresy". > >> > >> [snip] > >> > > >> > Oh there were a lot of what-ifs that could have caused the revolution > to > >> > fail. It's still a miracle that we won that war. YOu talk about very > >> > different treatment of the colonies...do you see any such treatment > that > >> > could have resulted in the colonies not attempting another revolution? > >> > > >> > It was inevitable, wasn't it? > >> > >> Its hard to say. There could have been accommodations and the eventual > >> change in status from a set of colonies to a Dominion, very much like > >> what happened in Upper and Lower Canada. At the end of the > >> Revolutionary war the idea was that it was too much democracy that was > >> the problem. So the BNA colonies representative legislatures were cut > >> back severely. It wasn't until the Upper and Lower Canada rebellions > >> of 1837 and the destruction of the Family Compacts that a more > >> representative legislature in the BNA Colonies were reestablished. > >> > >> > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:350137 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
