Now you are making go back to my notes ... see inline.
On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 10:40 PM, Sam <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Bagging a hooker != rape I didn't say it was, I was giving you a pattern of men bragging about sexual escapades with women. I am sorry you are a man and haven't been privy to such conversations. I have. I may have spent too much time in bars overhearing such conversations. > But Columbus never claimed he conquered lands and took slaves. He was > looking fora slave trade route and that sucks, but the people he took as > slaves were prisoners of war for killing the people he left behind. Not > saying I support him, just adding context. Huh? Columbus himself wrote that he would take slaves back in his own log books! And they were not taken in retaliation for killing his people! You have already been given sources for that. As far as conquering. Perhaps we have different definitions in mind, but when someone says they are seizing and claiming land, even for the end use of someone else, to me that means conquering. You want to use a different word, by all means, that's cool with me. A quote from Columbus himself: " T his is worth having, and must on no account be given up. I have taken possession of all these islands, for their Highnesses, and all may be more extensive than I know, or can say, and I hold them for their Highnesses, who can command them as absolutely as the kingdoms of Castile. In Hispaniola, in the most convenient place, most accessible for the gold mines and all commerce with the mainland on this side or with that of the great Khan, on the other, with which there would be great trade and profit, I have taken possession of a large town, which I have named the City of Navidad." The Taino, who flourished from a.d. 1200 to 1500, were about 500,000 strong when Columbus arrived. After Columbus? They were about decimated. Perhaps a few hundred survived. (source? Irving Rouse, The Tainos: Rise and Decline of the People Who Greeted Columbus) I'd call that conquering too. :) Another quote about the Taino: "In 1493 Columbus returned with an invasion force of seventeen ships, appointed at his own request by the Spanish Crown to install himself as "viceroy and governor of [the Caribbean islands] and the mainland" of America, a position he held until 1500. Setting up shop on the large island he called Espaola (today Haiti and the Dominican Republic), he promptly instituted policies of slavery (encomiendo) and systematic extermination against the native Taino population. Columbus's programs reduced Taino numbers from as many as eight million at the outset of his regime to about three million in 1496. Perhaps 100,000 were left by the time of the g overnor's departure." - Ward Churchill, "Indians are Us" > > Cannibals? OK, I get they wouldn't have been eaten if they avoided the > place but it does tend to piss of the visitors. Please. Shall we argue if they knew who they were really dealing with? Tomato, tomatoh. The guy raped a girl, given to him by Columbus. Who condoned it. Period. Lets stick to point. > I read the disease came from later explorer caused by Columbus > "discovering" new land to explore/conquer He and his men brought the diseased to those islands. Some were entirely wiped out. Between diseases and "extermination" and sending slaves back. Further explorations spread it even further. All part of the "Columbian Exchange". > I would love to see a source for that because I looked and can only find it > on left wing blogs. Casas turned against slavery while in Cuba nine years > after Columbus died. I doubt that quote is real or about Christopher > Columbus. My apologies on this quote. It was paraphrased by another researcher for a university paper. She cited the material correctly, I gave it incorrectly. Here's the actual work by de la Casa that she got it from: "Some of the secular Spaniards who have been here for many years say that the goodness of the Indians is undeniable and that if this gifted people could be brought to know the one true God they would be the most fortunate people in the world. Yet into this sheepfold, into this land of meek outcasts there came some Spaniards who immediately behaved like ravening wild beasts, wolves, tigers, or lions that had been starved for many days. And Spaniards have behaved in no other way during tla! past forty years, down to the present time, for they are still acting like ravening beasts, killing, terrorizing, afflicting, torturing, and destroying the native peoples, doing all this with the strangest and most varied new methods of cruelty, never seen or heard of before, and to such a degree that this Island of Hispaniola once so populous (having a population that I estimated to be more than three million), has now a population of barely two hundred persons." http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/02-las.html > > But I don't think he was the pure evil > that Oatmeal wants us to think. Who takes the Oatmeal as the pure word? I don't think he is pure evil. I believe he is despicable but again, a man created by the world he lived in. Hell the Romans routinely used small boys as slaves and for their sexual release. They were not evil, merely a product of their time. Today that wouldn't fly ... in most countries. But that's another topic. > > > Why is that important? Maybe that's why we don't call it North Columbus It is important because I have polled many school kids and they all exclaim "Columbus discovered America!" and in their young minds, America = United States. And that is wrong. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:367859 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
