On Tue, Oct 15, 2013 at 11:28 PM, Erika L. Rich <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Now you are making go back to my notes ... see inline. > > > Bagging a hooker != rape > > I didn't say it was, I was giving you a pattern of men bragging about > sexual escapades with women. I am sorry you are a man and haven't been > privy to such conversations. I have. I may have spent too much time in bars > overhearing such conversations. > > And I'm saying men can brag all they want about sex until it involves rape. That changes everything. > > > But Columbus never claimed he conquered lands and took slaves. He was > > looking fora slave trade route and that sucks, but the people he took as > > slaves were prisoners of war for killing the people he left behind. Not > > saying I support him, just adding context. > > Huh? Columbus himself wrote that he would take slaves back in his own log > books! And they were not taken in retaliation for killing his people! You > have already been given sources for that. > > Prisoners of war, they killed his entire settlement. > As far as conquering. Perhaps we have different definitions in mind, but > when someone says they are seizing and claiming land, even for the end use > of someone else, to me that means conquering. You want to use a different > word, by all means, that's cool with me. > > A quote from Columbus himself: " > T > his is worth having, and must on no account be given up. I have taken > possession of all these islands, for their Highnesses, and all may be more > extensive than I know, or can say, and I hold them for their Highnesses, > who can command them as absolutely as the kingdoms of Castile. In > Hispaniola, in the most convenient place, most accessible for the gold > mines and all commerce with the mainland on this side or with that of the > great Khan, on the other, with which there would be great trade and profit, > I have taken possession of a large town, which I have named the City of > Navidad." > You should read the rest of it. http://www.ushistory.org/documents/columbus.htm They firmly believed that I, with my ships and men, came from heaven, and with this idea I have been received everywhere, since they lost fear of me. They are, however, far from being ignorant. They are most ingenious men, and navigate these seas in a wonderful way, and describe everything well, but they never before saw people wearing clothes, nor vessels like ours. Directly I reached the Indies in the first isle I discovered, I took by force some of the natives, that from them we might gain some information of what there was in these parts; and so it was that we immediately understood each other, either by words or signs. They are still with me and still believe that I come from heaven. They were the first to declare this wherever I went, and the others ran from house to house, and to the towns around, crying out, "Come ! come! and see the man from heaven!" Then all, both men and women, as soon as they were reassured about us, came, both small and great, all bringing something to eat and to drink, which they presented with marvellous kindness. > The Taino, who flourished from a.d. 1200 to 1500, were about 500,000 strong > when Columbus arrived. After Columbus? They were about decimated. Perhaps a > few hundred survived. (source? Irving Rouse, The Tainos: Rise and Decline > of the People Who Greeted Columbus) I'd call that conquering too. > > Columbus found them and told Spain about them. The Spanish then came and forced them to work the mines. So Columbus is only guilty of mentioning them. Another quote about the Taino: > "In 1493 Columbus returned with an invasion force of > > seventeen ships, appointed at his own request by the Spanish Crown to > install himself as "viceroy and governor of [the Caribbean islands] > and the mainland" of America, a position he held until > > 1500. Setting up shop on the large island he called Espaola (today Haiti > and the Dominican Republic), he promptly instituted policies of > slavery (encomiendo) and systematic extermination against the native > Taino population. Columbus's programs reduced Taino numbers from as > many as eight million at the outset of his regime to about three > million in 1496. Perhaps 100,000 were left by the time of the > g > overnor's departure." > > - Ward Churchill, "Indians are Us" > > He went to create a colony not slaves. How ironic the name of Ward Churchill's book since like Elizabeth Warren he just pretended to be native American to get the job. Only he got fired and she got promoted. He's also called a bunch of my friends "little Eichmanns" so I have no love or trust for this asshole. I will need to see his sources. Please. Shall we argue if they knew who they were really dealing with? > Tomato, tomatoh. The guy raped a girl, given to him by Columbus. Who > condoned it. Period. > Lets stick to point. > > We still don't have a source for that letter. I find it odd that the entire internet only has one reference to it and it's an un-sourced college paper about Pocahontas. > > I read the disease came from later explorer caused by Columbus > > "discovering" new land to explore/conquer > > He and his men brought the diseased to those islands. Some were entirely > wiped out. Between diseases and "extermination" and sending slaves back. > Further explorations spread it even further. All part of the "Columbian > Exchange". > > We still don't know that. If he did is it his fault? Was it his intention? My apologies on this quote. It was paraphrased by another researcher for a > university paper. > She cited the material correctly, I gave it incorrectly. > > Here's the actual work by de la Casa that she got it from: > > "Some of the secular Spaniards who have been here for many years say that > the goodness of the Indians is undeniable and that if this gifted people > could be brought to know the one true God they would be the most fortunate > people in the world. > Yet into this sheepfold, into this land of meek outcasts there came some > Spaniards who immediately behaved like ravening wild beasts, wolves, > tigers, or lions that had been starved for many days. And Spaniards have > behaved in no other way during tla! past forty years, down to the present > time, for they are still acting like ravening beasts, killing, terrorizing, > afflicting, torturing, and destroying the native peoples, doing all this > with the strangest and most varied new methods of cruelty, never seen or > heard of before, and to such a degree that this Island of Hispaniola once > so populous (having a population that I estimated to be more than three > million), has now a population of barely two hundred persons." > http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/02-las.html > http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/20321/pg20321.txt The real text tells a different story > > But I don't think he was the pure evil > that Oatmeal wants us to think. Who takes the Oatmeal as the pure word? > Zap, Larry, Gel, Jerry a few others. > I don't think he is pure evil. I believe he is despicable but again, a man > created by the world he lived in. Hell the Romans routinely used small boys > as slaves and for their sexual release. They were not evil, merely a > product of their time. Today that wouldn't fly ... in most countries. But > that's another topic. > > In 1980 Howard Zinn, a Marxist, a member of the communist party US and obvious socialist writes a book to convince people to hate America and it's history. Four hundred books are sold. Years later the HBO via the Sopranos and Oatmeal publisize his made up writings and history is officially re-written. Millions of books are sold and when a reference is needed we point to the book that was discredited by almost all historians at the time. That's how it works. > > > > Why is that important? Maybe that's why we don't call it North Columbus > > > It is important because I have polled many school kids and they all exclaim > "Columbus discovered America!" and in their young minds, America = United > States. And that is wrong. > > He did "discover" it. If he didn't go back and tell people he couldn't be responsible for the small pox that killed the masses. We can't have it both ways. Maybe we should blame Erickson for bringing disease if he discovered it first. . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/message.cfm/messageid:367862 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-community/unsubscribe.cfm
