Oscar Wilde put it succinctly: "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious".
- Kevin > -----Original Message----- > From: Will Swain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 9:05 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > Hello....coming in on the end of this no doubt, so bear with me. > > Timothy, surely anyone who is a citizen, and has a right to vote, has the > same right to vote, and indeed to a political opinion, as someone who was > born in that country? So the "were you born here" argument is invalid, and > to be honest potentially a little distasteful. > > Also, saying why come here if you don't like everything about the country, > is like saying leave if you don't like everything about the > country. That's > just not democratic at worst, and at the very least will lead to > conservative, never changing politics. > > Just a few thoughts. > > w > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kevin Gilchrist [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: 15 August 2002 15:52 > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > That's a bit oversimplified, you assume everyone makes migration decisions > based on ideology. > The quick and easy answer is that most people do so for economic reasons. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Timothy Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:48 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > Ok, > So you moved to this country, with a knowledge that you > dislike the way > it's government does things. Why would you do that? I mean you came here > from another country presumably Canada (I think you mentioned something > along those lines once). Was the decision to originally move here purely > economic? I guess I would ask any new immigrant 1 question that I would > want an honest answer to. It would have to be an essay question I guess. > Please summarize and to the best of your knowledge explain the reasons for > and meaning of the constitution of the united states. > > I don't say if you don't like it leave. If you are born > here I can totally > understand disagreeing with the way thing are, and wanting to do something > about it. My problem is if you aren't born here, and want to > change things. > I mean why come here in the first place, there has to be something here > better than where ever you are coming from right? > > I have made it clear that I would like to see sweeping > changes made to our > government to see it returned to the constitutional republic from > whence it > came (I love that phrase :). However, I was born here. I have served in > our armed forces. I vote in every election. I support > candidates, I write > letters, I sign petitions. I am proactive in regards to my > opinions. I am > not someone from the outside, who may not even understand our system of > government, and what it means to us in both a legal and a cultural sense. > > Don't leave. Just don't come in the first place unless you > like what you > see. > > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:33 AM > > To: CF-Community > > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > > > > I am an immigrant. I am going for my citizenship later this year. > > > > to quote Isaac Dealey in response to what you imply: > > > > > And I say this: > > > > > > Just like America, if you don't like it, LEAVE! > > > > > > Just my 2 cents. > > > > I've never cared for this statement... I don't much care for > the US gov't, > > laws, policies ( foreign or domestic ) etc. but it's not always > as easy as > > "shut up or get out" ... Some of us actually would like to change > > the things > > we find troublesome or sometimes downright "wrong" about the way this > > country operates, because we don't want to leave our families, > friends or > > homes behind to move out of the country. Even for those of us > who may not > > care to stay in the country, leaving isn't always an easy thing to do > > either. It usually means finding a job in another country or learning > > another language or both. > > > > We cultural critics don't present our criticisms necessarily because we > > dislike the people here or because we think some place else is > better, but > > because we see things we feel need to change. Often we also > don't know how > > to go about changing these things we feel need to change, or > rather, don't > > have ready-made solutions, and so a lot of people see us as being > > "whiners"... but really we're just trying to raise awareness of various > > things we see as problems. > > > > I do agree however that anyone who has problems with the ways > the list or > > HoF are managed ought to present their complaints in a civil and > > professional manner to the list or otherwise in any manner to Mike in > > private email. > > > > Isaac Dealey > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer > > > > www.turnkey.to > > 954-776-0046 > > -- > > > > this about says it all on the topic. One can be critical of something or > > those one may care about. Its a difficult concept to grasp. > deal with it. > > > > larry > > -- > > Larry C. Lyons > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > EBStor.com > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > -- > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Timothy Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:28 AM > > > To: CF-Community > > > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > > > > > > > I was speaking as relates to his past express opinions on > > > this list. It's > > > funny that as one of the people who knocks many of our > > > policies, he still > > > wants to immigrate here. > > > > > > Tim > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 10:05 AM > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > > > > > > > > > > Timothy > > > > > > > > Stalin made that quote in the 1930's and has been quoted by both > > > > on the left > > > > and the right. One example is McCarthy who used it in a > > > speech to his > > > > infamous Committee on un-American Activities. All that type > > > of insinuation > > > > does is demonizes those that may think differently from convention. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Larry C. Lyons > > > > ColdFusion/Web Developer > > > > Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer > > > > EBStor.com > > > > 8870 Rixlew Lane, Suite 204 > > > > Manassas, Virginia 20109-3795 > > > > tel: (703) 393-7930 > > > > fax: (703) 393-2659 > > > > Web: http://www.ebstor.com > > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Chaos, panic, and disorder - my work here is done. > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Timothy Heald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 11:00 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: RE: Some people are more equal as others > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why am I not surprised that you can quote Stalin? > > > > > > > > > > Timothy Heald > > > > > ACP/CCFD :) > > > > > 910-425-9988 > > > > > > > > > > Manager Fayetteville ColdFusion User Group > > > > > http://www.fcfug.org > > > > > > > > > > Fusebox Advisory Committee Member > > > > > http://www.fusebox.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 10:04 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: Re: Some people are more equal as others > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William H. Bowen wrote: > > > > > > Of course, at the same time, the rest of the world > > > broke their necks > > > > > racing > > > > > > at great speeds to help out. > > > > > > > > > > Some even broke their necks racing to help people deeper in. > > > > > I can think > > > > > of at least 4 countries (2 African and 2 European). But the > > > > > thought that > > > > > this tpe of calculation is actually made (even apart from the > > > > > outcome of > > > > > it) just doesn't feel right. > > > > > > > > > > And do you know what is scary? Hearing these numbers > > > doesn't even make > > > > > me angry, just sad. Sad of what a place this world is. > > > Sad that when I > > > > > take a god look at some of the classes I follow in Uni, they > > > > > teach me to > > > > > do exactly this type of calculation. But in the end I > > > will just shrug > > > > > and go on. > > > > > Sometimes I wonder whether I should be disturbed by myself. > > > > > > > > > > Jochem > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic. > > > > > - Joseph Stalin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
