> -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 11:19 AM > To: CF-Community > Subject: RE: Is America Evil? Switzerland Ideal? > > > Here's the "British" Idea of freedom. Precautionary arrests. Hehe. > > http://www.ds-osac.org/view.cfm?key=7746534A47&type=3D13151D011112 > > Tim >
How is that different from the U.S. "detaining" (imprisoning) hundreds of U.S. citizens indefinitely with no charges and no recourse to representation and no chance to even confront those who witness against them? How is that different from our government prosecuting librarians for telling people that the government has subpeonead records about them? How is that different from the government monitoring attorny/client conversations and using that against them? How is that different from the Patriot Act allowing the government to search and seize without probable cause if the investigation is under the label of terrorism? How about wiretaps with no warrant if it's labeled a terror investigation? And then there's the grey area of monitoring "public" conversations and gatherings, even those on private networks, in an effort to stifle discourse. And if we want to stray away from the post-9/11 changes, we can look at other erosions of civil rights, such as the 4th Amendment not applying to your car. Or how about local laws, like the ones we have here that let the police lock people up without a formal arrest or charges, just for standing on the sidewalk? They call them "loitering laws" here and I know they were modeled after laws in many other communities. I expected these to get smacked down immediately by the ACLU, but they've stood for several years now. Or, since you place such a weight on the right to bear arms, how about local ordinances that prevent such ownership? They claim it's because of proximity to schools or public places, but it's just a way to ban guns. Heck, most cities have laws against carrying a pocket knife. Freedom of speech? That's a laugh in a country that created the DMCA. So far the government hasn't used it to prevent political speech, but it's been used to squash plenty of people in other venues. I agree with you that the U.S. isn't all bad and evil, but it sure as hell isn't as rosy as the picture you're painting in your comments either. -Kevin ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
