Doug, I agree we should pull troops from Germany. I think we should only be involved where our national interests are involved.
PS. I read somewhere, I am looking for it now, that privately all but one of Sadaams neighbors support his removal in private, but are fearful of his weapons so will not say so publically. ----- Original Message ----- From: "samcfug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 4:35 PM Subject: Re: The Choice Before Us > You state all the facts, why no one should support the Saddam regimen, however, > one major question in my mind is why is not Iraq's neighbors making an outcry > for his ouster? Sure he has attacked and killed Iraqi neighbors, but > absolutely not one of them are calling for his ouster. The first invasion was > all about oil, and so is this one. OPEC does not want Iraq to have economic > sanctions lifted, as that will be major competition in the oil patch and will > drive prices back down. Could it be that all of them support his attacking > Israel? > > The next question is that why should a so-called peaceful nation, become the > world's policeman? We only have the support of Pakistan in return for billions > in bribes and aid. Cut that off, and they will revert immediately to what > Afghanistan was before the US attack. Exactly the same exist in Bosnia. I can > remember US Presidents being voted out of office because of scandals involving > covert operations to change the leadership of countries to one that will best > favor the US trade and economical interests. Is this not exactly the same > thing? > > China is a Territory aggressor. many African countries are territory > aggressors, and that is not all. We are not calling for a change of regime in > China or Africa (where Muslims are murdering (slaughtering?) any and all > dissidents.) by the millions) We are pouring taxpayers' money into Columbia and > getting nowhere, because The US will not aggressively root our the flow of money > and the money changers right here in the US. The US decries terrorists, but > still will not do much more than cosmetic changes in our Border policy, and of > course does nothing at all about illegal immigrants, including the ones that > commit felonies. Lowly clerks in our State Department still have the authority > to grant visas without having to do any investigation at all. We do not > prosecute seditionists, in fact we do not even have an enforceable sedition law. > We do not prosecute those who are rallying people to oppose the US by force in > the name of some religion or other. The real traitors are those that campaign > against this country developing our own domestic oil supplies and reducing our > dependence on foreign sources. Our built-in hate for Mexico has prevented a > reliable, cheap and long term solution for supplies of natural gas and > petroleum. It is the US policies that are at fault in the Argentina crisis. > Wake up folks! > > It appears that the Bush administration desires to control World Trade, much > like a throwback to the British when the Americas were very young. The policy > did not sell then, and I feel it will not sell now. His attorney general is > interested only in removing citizen rights as guaranteed by our constitution, > but will not prosecute corporate criminals, other than a very few high profile > cases. The US economy is in the toilet, and our foreign policy sucks big time. > The major call-up of military reserves is not the best way to create job > openings for the unemployed. These areas are a topic better attended to by our > elected representatives. > > The Bush administration is trading in fear tactics, both against our own people > (Bought your plastic and duct tape yet?) and others as well. It warms my heart > that many are not buying it. I would rather see this country pulling its troops > out of Germany, and any other European country that opposes us. A little more > nationalism would be a good thing, I think in my own libertarian mind. > > ===================================== > Douglas White > > > | Subject: The Choice Before Us > | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > | Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:02:27 -0400 > | Thread: > http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=messages&threadid=678 1&fo > rumid=5#60949 > | > | First, you need to take note that Saddam has actually been a territory > aggressor - this is perhaps the most important point. Saddam was mounting his > military next to the Saudi border before we invaded (thus the reason we were > allowed to use Saudi land for the attack - they hate us perhaps more than > Saddam). > | > | Why is this significant? With Iraq having the 4th largest army in the world, > the access, ability and proven willingness to use chemical and biological > weapons - if he was successful in taking Saudi next (and he would have been) - > he would have controlled over 50% of the world's oil. > | > | So is it about oil? Yes, in some ways it is. Do we want to steal his oil or > control his share? Of course not - we have proven that with the first conflict. > | > | But can you think of a better way to stifle and ruin the global economy and > bring it to its knees than stop the oil flow - thus stopping transportation - > supply lines - etc? Anyone that can't see the importance of protecting the oil > from a proven aggressor like that is being a little na�ve to the global economy > dependencies. One of the main considerations of execution of the first strike > was ensuring Saddam didn't cut off his nose in spite of his face, and destroy > his own oil fields. > | > | Secondly, it is obvious why the Middle East situation is 10 times more > important than the North Korea situation. With Saddam having the ability to > launch against Israel, we have serious problems. The middle east is a time > bomb, and Saddam knows that we would have no choice than to defend on short > notice - causing massive casualties - eventually leaving Israel in a good > position to make bad decisions (nukes). Now enter the entire Arab hot bed into > the situation. Pakistan pops a few nukes into India and joins Saddam's army - > India retaliates with nukes. A huge radioactive cloud would cover half the world > in a matter of months. It will make the holocaust look like a chuck e cheese > birthday party. These are people that would love nothing more than die pushing > the nuke button and visit their 79 virgins in the sky. It's a massive bomb > waiting to go off. > | > | North Korea is a serious situation, but the consequences are hardly as serious > as the Middle East for the time being. North Korea can be handled with Economic > sanctions Saddam has proven he cannot. North Korea is surrounded with countries > that do not support their actions so their clout is not as impressive as they > might think, who are their allies? The same people we are trying to disarm > right now. > | > | Third, there are in fact major humanitarian reasons to liberate Iraq. I know > that there is a morality question of whether we have the right to do so. It is > not a sole reason to oust Saddam, but is one more thing to add to a very long > and growing list of concerns. But it is important to note the conditions the > Iraqis live under. It would take hours to list a fraction of them. One of the > most disgusting facts is that Iraq is the only country that employs professional > rapists. -Look it up if you want. > | > | Don't flame or personally attack each other - we are all above that. Bottom > line is that we all have an opinion, and I respect yours - I'm just stating > mine. =) > | > | > | Nate Nielsen > | [EMAIL PROTECTED] > | > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
