Well, I would imagine that anyone charged with a crime like spying is going to be held in solitary, those are probably just the rules. You don't want somebody getting upset and killing the guy because he was spying, even if he was, he still might have been useful to us.
I would also imagine the evidence for spying is flimsy to begin with, even if the accused is actually guilty. The other country is going to deny it no matter what. But this is all speculation on my part. I don't know > -----Original Message----- > From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 4:46 PM > To: CF-Community > Subject: Re: A good american > > well put. > > I do agree with most of that. I wonder why it was thought necessary to > hold > him in solitary confinement, and why, if the evidence was so flimsy as to > elicit an apology, the case wasn't simply dismissed in the first place. > But > a good system sometimes has bad results, sure. > > Dana > > > > On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 16:02:51 -0400, Nick McClure <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > There is a difference between a peace time spy, and a war time traitor. > A > > peace time spy operating in the US is governed by the federal court > > system. > > > > This man was accused of being a spy, a more thorough investigation > proved > > this to be incorrect. So what do you do? If there is cause you have to > > arrest him. What if he was a spy, that potential served as a possible > > risk > > to the nation. > > > > We can't let him continue doing his job, if we think he is spying, we > > can't > > let him run free, so we arrest him, on legitimate charges, and hold an > > investigation, which showed he was just doing what everybody else was > > doing. > > > > That is the peace time legal system of this country. > > > > In war time, a traitor or spy on the battle field is much easier to > spot, > > he's the one wearing the same uniform you are, and is shooting at you. > > That > > person is subject to immediate execution, by whatever means are > required. > > > > The legal system in this country while it assumes innocence, the courts > > still have a responsibility to ensure the person accused does not > attempt > > flight, or potentially continuing to break the law while out on bond. > The > > person was held without bail, pending the investigation and trial. > > > > There are plenty of people who are held without bail pending trial, > > sometimes this takes up to a year or longer. That is our legal system. > If > > people would stop suing McDonalds because they spilled their coffee, > > maybe > > we wouldn't need so many civil court justices, and they could be > > prosecuting > > criminals. > > > > The wheels of justice turn slowly, but it seems that more often than > not, > > when they stop turning, the innocent go free, and the guilty go to jail. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 3:11 PM > >> To: CF-Community > >> Subject: Re: A good american > >> > >> OK, I was thinking about this thread while I was eating my thai chile. > >> It > >> originally started as a rather flippant remark in response to John' > >> suggestion that we shoot spies. I gave Wen Ho Lee as an example of an > >> accused spy who was apparently innocent. Since then Bill has been > >> arguing > >> erm, something, and I am letting this thread get to my blood pressure. > I > >> really hate when I hear condescension coming from someone who can't be > >> bothered to check facts before making smug pronouncements. > >> > >> Your arguments are slightly different. You are right that ignorance of > >> the > >> law is not an excuse. That is probably not what happened in the Wen Ho > >> Lee > >> case, but ok. That case was intended to be an example of > >> disproportionate > >> penalties and one where the court system did not work. > >> > >> But there is a deeper question here, which is how can you possibly > >> prevent > >> anyone from ever thinking you have done something wrong, which seems to > >> be > >> what you are saying. Some people just see wrongdoing everywhere. I have > >> been reported to Child Protective Services for owning a computer > >> (Florida) > >> and for having a job (New Mexico). The scary thing is that both times > >> the > >> agencies investigated, though the cases were quickly closed. The answer > >> to > >> this is *not* to not work because some people think you should stay > home > >> with your children and *not* to not own a computer because some people > >> think the internet is evil. You cannot possibly proactively imagine all > >> of > >> the idiotic things people can dream up in the way of accusations. > >> > >> So if you are saying that he should have considered the possiblity that > >> someone would accuse him of being a spy, I respectfully disagree. You > >> cannot live your life on the basis of trying to never be accused of > >> something. > >> > >> Dana > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:52:56 -0400, Nick McClure <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> nacho.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> > That is why we have a court system. > >> > > >> > If animal control gets there and says there is nothing wrong, then > the > >> > neighbor will just have to deal with it. > >> > > >> > Ignorance of the law/rule is no excuse; you have a responsibility > >> prior > >> > to > >> > doing something to verify that what you plan to do follows the rules. > >> > > >> > The courts have ruled on this time and time again, just because you > >> > didn't > >> > know it was illegal doesn't mean your are not responsible for it. > >> > > >> > If you are underpaying on your social security, the government has a > >> way > >> > to > >> > get things back where they are supposed to be. If your company didn't > >> > withhold the correct amount, they will work out a way for you to pay > >> it > >> > to > >> > them. If the company withheld the correct amount, but didn't send it > >> in, > >> > then you show proof of this, and they will go after the company. > >> > > >> > They are not going to arrest you because your math was wrong, they > >> will > >> > audit you, and all parties can work things out. Remember, if you are > >> > underpaying on you social security, you are hurting every American, > if > >> > you > >> > cheat on your taxes, you are hurting every American. > >> > > >> > What about those really archaic laws? Those murder laws are pretty > >> old; > >> > maybe I can just ignore them. If there is a law on the books you need > >> to > >> > follow the law or accept the consequences, you can try to get the law > >> > changed, or abolished, but until then, it is still a law. > >> > > >> > Obedience of the law is not asked, it is expected. > >> > > >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> >> From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 1:30 PM > >> >> To: CF-Community > >> >> Subject: Re: A good american > >> >> > >> >> hmm. And what if the dog is not being abused but your neighbor feels > >> no > >> >> dog > >> >> should ever be left outside? And what about the people on this list > >> who > >> >> have apparently been underpaying their Social Security taxes without > >> >> realizing it? You have to imagine that something is a rule to not > >> break > >> >> it, > >> >> or that someone might think you are doing somethng wrong and report > >> it. > >> >> What about all those really archaic laws? I think you guys are > >> >> stretching. > >> >> > >> >> Dana > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
