I know that Canada has a different ethos. I never said they didn't. I said that Canada was a socialist country. Dana argued the point. You then posted definitions that basically proved my point.
I don't need to look into the rise of socialism inside the US. I know how extreme some of our politicians actually are. I know about the National Recovery Act. I know how people want the government to baby sit them. Rather like a PPO? Only government controlled. > To place under government or group ownership or control. Your definition man. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 4:33 PM To: CF-Community Subject: RE: Altruism (was RE: US threatens Caribbean Countries) >In Canada it is much more pronounced. The programs for natives and >minorities, the fact that you get paid an allowance for each child you have, >the way that private property is handled there, centralized socialized >health care, no right to self defense. I think the US is headed towards >socialism I just think Canada is beating us to the punch. Lets see, Canada has a different ethos than the US, Peace Order and Good Government,vs Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. As for the medicare stuff, you may want to dig around a bit and look at the debates that happened in the 1950's and 1960's regarding the Canadian Medical System. You will find it most instructive BTW its not a centralized socialized system, doctors can opt out., Moreover the structure is more like a very large PPO rather than a socialized system. You seem to equate the Canadian system with the British or French systems. You need to research it a bit more. Given your points, is the German medical system a socialized system? BTW as for socialized, I certainly hope that the medical system is socialized, I'd hate to have to be treated by anti-social doctors and nurses: from dictionary.com so�cial�ize P Pronunciation Key (s sh -l z) v. so�cial�ized, so�cial�iz�ing, so�cial�iz�es v. tr. To place under government or group ownership or control. To make fit for companionship with others; make sociable. To convert or adapt to the needs of society. v. intr. To take part in social activities. So in essence I'd prefer my doctors to be sociable. larry > >Tim > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:30 PM >To: CF-Community >Subject: Re: Altruism (was RE: US threatens Caribbean Countries) > > >Um? I don't see your point. There is such a thing as state aid there, as >there is here. > >Dana > >Heald, Tim writes: > >> >who advocated state aid for the betterment of the working classes >> >> This is what I am talking about. >> >> Tim >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 2:10 PM >> To: CF-Community >> Subject: Re: Altruism (was RE: US threatens Caribbean Countries) >> >> >> Me thinks that he's using socialist as a pejorative, and not really using >> the word as its actually defined: >> >> from dictionary.com >> >> Socialism >> >> >> ><http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=socialism%20of%20the%20chair>Soci a >> lism >> of the chair [G. katheder socialismus], a term applied about 1872, at >first >> in ridicule, to a group of German political economists who advocated state > >> aid for the betterment of the working classes. Sock \Sock\, v. t. [Perh. >> shortened fr. sockdolager.] To hurl, drive, or strike violently; -- often >> with it as an object. [Prov. or Vulgar] --Kipling. >> >> \So"cial*ism\, n. [Cf. F. socialisme.] A theory or system of social reform > >> which contemplates a complete reconstruction of society, with a more just >> and equitable distribution of property and labor. In popular usage, the >> term is often employed to indicate any lawless, revolutionary social >> scheme. See <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=communism>Communism, > >> <http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fourierism>Fourierism, >> ><http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=saint-simonianism>Saint-Simoniani s >> m, >> forms of socialism. >> >> [Socialism] was first applied in England to Owen's theory of social >> reconstruction, and in France to those also of St. Simon and Fourier . . . > >> The word, however, is used with a great variety of meaning, . . . even by >> economists and learned critics. The general tendency is to regard as >> socialistic any interference undertaken by society on behalf of the poor, >. >> . . radical social reform which disturbs the present system of private >> property . . . The tendency of the present socialism is more and more to >> ally itself with the most advanced democracy. --Encyc. Brit. > > > > We certainly want a true history of socialism, meaning by that a history >of > > every systematic attempt to provide a new social existence for the mass of > > > the workers. --F. Harrison. >> >> >> At 05:52 PM 7/8/2003 +0000, Dana Tierney wrote: >> >Well Tim, considering you also think that I am in favor of socialized >> >medecine, I can't say I have a lot of respect for that opinion. I mean, >> >c'mon, you equate favoring non-smoking restaurants with being >> >anti-business. You are simply wrong, like when you claimed Canada was a >> >socialist country, hehe. >> > >> >Dana >> > >> >Heald, Tim writes: >> > >> > > I am not saying that based on your last comments. I am saying that >> > based on >> > > our discussions over time I have come to the conclusion that you are >> indeed >> > > a collectivist. I am also saying that I don't think you realize it on >> any >> > > conscious level. You tend to have opinions on individual political >> > matters, >> > > not one larger overriding image of what the government should look >like. >> > > When you take all of your opinions together this is the impression I >> have >> > > gotten. >> > > >> > > Also I am not saying that you don't deserve to hold these opinions, or >> have >> > > a job or should be black listed, so I think the McCarthy label is a >bit >> > off. >> > > >> > > Tim >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2003 1:33 PM >> > > To: CF-Community >> > > Subject: Re: Altruism (was RE: US threatens Caribbean Countries) >> > > >> > > >> > > what??? How do you get "collectivist thought" out of a summary of a >dead >> > > philosopher's writing?? I didn't even say I agreed with him (or her) >and >> am >> > > at a loss to see how you get collectivism out of it in the first >place. >> > > >> > > McCarthyism Alert on Tim. >> > > >> > > Dana >> > > >> > > Heald, Tim writes: >> > > >> > > > This is one of those times when I think you don't see what the sum >> result >> > > of >> > > > your own beliefs is. I believe there is more of collectivist >thought >> in >> > > you >> > > > than you realize. >> > > > >> > > > Tim >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -----Original Message----- >> > > > From: Dana Tierney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > > > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:39 PM >> > > > To: CF-Community >> > > > Subject: Re: Altruism (was RE: US threatens Caribbean Countries) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > Mill's and Bentham's writing on utilitarianism claim that >> > > > > > when you work for yourself and your own happiness, your truly >> > > > > > working for "society" or the community. >> > > > >> > > > Actually, I think it was the other way around. I have not read >> > Bentham but >> > > > Mills said that altruistic acts in fact provide the doer with >utility, >> > > such >> > > > as good feelings about himself. Assuming that it was Mills that >wrote >> > > > Utilitarianism; a lot of people seem to think it was his wife. >> > > > >> > > > > > liberal at times (I may be getting confused, I think Dana and >> > > > > > Larry are the only ones that I really have pegged at this >> > > > > > point.). >> > > > >> > > > Not based on that summary of my alleged beliefs the other day you >dont >> :) >> > > > >> > > > Cheers, >> > > > Dana >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. http://www.cfhosting.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
