not such a hard concept to buy into. -----Original Message----- From: John Stanley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 7:14 AM To: CF-Community Subject: RE: Yet another scumbag parent....
Or the bible is just a book that was written by some guys to make everyone conform to a set of societal guidelines that were easily enforceable. -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Small [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 10:16 AM To: CF-Community Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... Actually, you need to read and study the Bible to understand which parts of it to follow. I'm not a Bible scholar, but I do go to Bible studies and read the Word to know what it is trying to say to me. That's a major point of the religion that non-Christians don't seem to understand - you think it's like a set of laws, when in reality it's a mostly set of guidelines for following your life, along with some laws, and the Lord guides each of us in his own way. Which are which? That's up to people more learned than me to figure out. But back to the real point - when Jesus the Messiah came, he ruled that the Law of Moses was in the past, and that His law - the doctrines of forgiveness, acceptance, and love - are the new law. There are definitely some prohibitions as to some things to do and not do - I don't know what they are offhand, as I don't know the Levitical laws - but it's not about picking and choosing what you want to do or not do according to the Bible. How does this affect the choosing of the homosexual Bishop? Let me try to explain as best as I understand the Bible and it's teachings (like I said, I'm no Bible scholar, but I try). To start with, there is a standard for people who spread the Word - they must hold themselves to a much higher standard than the people that they minister to, not meaning that they are without sin, but that they walk the straight and narrow line as closely as possible. Next, there are prohibitions against having sexual relations with any person outside the bounds of matrimony. The fact alone that the Bishop-elect lives with a sexual partner (male or female) outside of marriage should be enough to exclude him from being a priest in the first place. Thirdly, homosexuality is a sin in and of itself in the eyes of God, and whether anybody else agrees with Him is irrevelant, it's His decision alone to make, and that's that. Openly promoting and living a sinful life, whatever the sin, whether it being sexual relations with a man or woman, or spreading hurtful gossip, or giving the finger to a driver who cuts you off in traffic, is not a trait that men of the Cloth should have. Again, this is not to say that these men are perfect, but rather held to a higher standard, I would say much like a job promotion - you are better at your job than your peers who did not get promoted, therefore are deserving of more responsibility and respect because you embody the creed. One very important point to be made is in all of this, the law of forgiveness and acceptance is still upheld. Jesus loves every person on Earth, and wants them to follow His ways. He forgives everybody of all of their sins, although he hates the sin, and loves the sinner. There is no prohibition against this man being a Christian, just against being a priest or bishop or whatever. God loves us all. Anyway, that's my take. Matthew Small ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry C. Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 4:37 PM Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > So in that case its ok to pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow. > > larry > > At 04:39 PM 8/5/2003 -0400, Matthew Small wrote: > >Actually, Christians aren't supposed to follow Levitical law, but rather the > >law of acceptance and forgiveness as told by Jesus Christ. > > > >Matthew Small > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Larry C. Lyons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 4:30 PM > >Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > That's for sure. Haven't been to a good stoning in years. And how many > > > Christian men follow the prescriptions in Leviticus and Exodus. > > > > > > larry > > > > > > At 03:09 PM 8/5/2003 -0500, Deanna Schneider wrote: > > > >I think the rub lies in the fact that the bible says a lot of things that > >no > > > >one follows. I read a really good article about it once, which I, of > >course, > > > >can't find now. But, it basically went through all the things that people > > > >couldn't do, or would have to do, if the bible was followed verbatim. The > > > >point was that the bible was written a long time ago and parts of it are > > > >accepted as no longer relevant. So, who's to say that the edicts against > > > >homosexuality are any more relevant than these other things deemed > > > >irrelevant now. > > > > > > > >-d > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Heald, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:36 PM > > > >Subject: RE: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Umm I said catholic where? > > > > > > > > > > If they want to say yes more power. I guess they haven't read the > >bible, > > > > > but so be it. > > > > > > > > > > BTW I am a recently converted atheist, after being one of those flaky > >feel > > > > > good pagan types. I don't want it to be misunderstood. I do not > >believe > > > > > what the book says, but if you claim it........... > > > > > > > > > > Timothy Heald > > > > > Information Systems Specialist > > > > > Overseas Security Advisory Council > > > > > U.S. Department of State > > > > > 571.345.2235 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 3:32 PM > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > Subject: RE: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this particular case, it's the Episcopalian Church that was about > >to > > > > > explicitly say "yes" to a gay bishop. Different Church than if he was > > > > > Catholic. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Heald, Tim [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 1:49 PM > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > Subject: RE: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait. I have no problem with anyone based on sexual > > > > > > preference, however, how can one claim to be a "Christian" > > > > > > after the bible says sodomy is a no go, and god killed a > > > > > > bunch of those that practiced it? Not to mention is the > > > > > > church free to make whatever bylaws it wants? Shouldn't they > > > > > > be able to say no gay ministers? I mean the military still > > > > > > does and that's a government institution. > > > > > > > > > > > > Timothy Heald > > > > > > Information Systems Specialist > > > > > > Overseas Security Advisory Council > > > > > > U.S. Department of State > > > > > > 571.345.2235 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Larry C. Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:40 PM > > > > > > To: CF-Community > > > > > > Subject: Re: Yet another scumbag parent.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn't that what's happening now, i.e., Laramie Wyoming and > > > > > > the most recent > > > > > > election fiasco with the Episcopalian Church. > > > > > > > > > > > > larry > > > > > > > > > > > > At 01:33 PM 8/5/2003 -0500, Doug White wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >If we decriminalized these so-called crimes what would be > > > > > > left for the > > > > > > >right-wing to do? Gang up on the homos? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=5 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=subscribe&forumid=5 Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.5
