the individual. But the approach is to make sure that everything is
"equitable" by defining a common ground of pay and benefits for any worker
who is part of the union. It's a set of rules that apply to everyone
equally, and those rules may benefit individuals. But they also may also
allow non-productive people to get the same benefits as hard workers.
But without unions and the labor movement we wouldn't have weekends.
-Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Smyth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:40 AM
Subject: RE: CF Salary Range
> but wasn't the whole original ethos of unions to protect individuals
workers
> rights in the workplace?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deanna Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 02 October 2003 14:37
> To: CF-Community
> Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
>
>
> I would think that you would prefer no regulation. Unions don't exactly
> promote individual liberties. They promote a very "socialized" way of
life.
>
> -d
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Heald, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 12:57 PM
> Subject: RE: CF Salary Range
>
>
> > A free grouping of people? This would bother a libertarian why?
> >
> > I admit that most modern unions have hurt not helped. There was a time
> when
> > they did very important work. Again remember this is free association,
> not
> > legislated action, and could be used to forestall some of the possible
> > actions the government is consider taking to regulate it, specifically
how
> > it relates to security.
> >
> > Self regulation is always preferable to gov't regulation.
> >
> > Timothy Heald
> > Information Systems Manager
> > Overseas Security Advisory Council
> > U.S. Department of State
> > 571.345.2319
> >
> > The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the U.S.
> > Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have these
> > opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This e-mail
> is
> > unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Deanna Schneider [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:51 AM
> > To: CF-Community
> > Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
> >
> >
> > And a libertarian would be interested in a union? Um, why?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Heald, Tim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "CF-Community" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:30 AM
> > Subject: RE: CF Salary Range
> >
> >
> > > A friend and I actually started talking about the idea of a union.
You
> > get
> > > skill ratings by time in service, testing, and peer review.
> Additionally
> > > that would allow for a much more stable salary range I think. The
down
> is
> > > that companies historically don't like unions, and would probably
resist
> > > hiring union programmers.
> > >
> > > Timothy Heald
> > > Information Systems Manager
> > > Overseas Security Advisory Council
> > > U.S. Department of State
> > > 571.345.2319
> > >
> > > The opinions expressed here do not necessarily reflect those of the
U.S.
> > > Department of State or any affiliated organization(s). Nor have these
> > > opinions been approved or sanctioned by these organizations. This
> > is
> > > unclassified based on the definitions in E.O. 12958.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kwang Suh [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:01 AM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: RE: CF Salary Range
> > >
> > >
> > > You're asking implementation. Think bigger picture: Can we protect
IT
> > jobs
> > > in North America by having professional designations in the industry?
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Kevin Graeme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Sent: October 1, 2003 7:50 AM
> > > To: CF-Community
> > > Subject: Re: CF Salary Range
> > >
> > >
> > > > You're overblowing it. Other professions have designations (and
trust
> > me,
> > > a
> > > > CPA desig is not "mythical", no matter how you view it).
> > >
> > > Alright, maybe I did engage in a little hyperbole, and you're right
that
> > > other professions have designations. So how do you see a designation
> > > working? I have some questions:
> > >
> > > 1. How will the designations be determined? Who decides?
> > > 2. How will people be evaluated? Will it involve going to an official
> > office
> > > or will it be a process that anyone authorized can administer?
> > > 3. Will there be a fee to get evaluated?
> > > 4. Who will perform the evaluations? Not just what organization, or
what
> > > process, but how many people will be involved in evaluating all the
> > current
> > > and potential IT workers? How will they be funded?
> > > 5. If it's process where anyone authorized can administer the
> evaluation,
> > > how does that authorization process happen?
> > > 6. Will all current IT workers be grandfathered in, or will they need
to
> > be
> > > evaluated?
> > > 7. If they are grandfathered in, how is there designation determined
for
> > > further job changes?
> > > 8. If they need to be evaluated, what is the timeframe involved and
what
> > is
> > > the incentive to employers to have their current, capable employees
> > > evaluated if there is a chance the employees will not achieve the
> > > appropriate designation for their current job?
> > > 9. How do people contest their designation? Is there going to be a
> process
> > > for that? Who oversees that process to ensure that favoritism doesn't
> > > happen? How will those people be compensated for their time?
> > > 10. How do employers verify that potential applicants have been
> > designated?
> > > 11. How will people who are self-taught know that they need to get a
> > > designation? If it requires an ongoing awareness and promotion
campaign,
> > how
> > > much will that cost and how will it be funded?
> > > 12. How will you ensure that people actually need the designation?
Will
> > > employers only be allowed to hire people with a designation? If no,
then
> > > will equally capable non-designated people have a legal recourse to
> > contest
> > > discrimination against them in the hiring process? If yes, how do you
> > > propose to make it a requirement?
> > > 13. Once people have a designation, what happens as they continue to
> > develop
> > > professionally? Will the designation change to reflect that, and what
is
> > > involved to make the designation change?
> > > 14. If an employee has a designation, but an employer still doesn't
feel
> > > they can actually do the job, what happens? Can the employee appeal to
> any
> > > designating authority to determine whether the employer properly set
the
> > > expectations for a job function with a given designation? Are there
any
> > > protections for the worker at all after going through the process of
> > > achieving a designation or is it only the employer who benefits during
> the
> > > hiring process?
> > > 15. Can a person's designation be revoked for any reason?
> > > 16. How much will designations cost the industry? Will candidates have
> to
> > > pay for testing? If so, how much?
> > > 17. Will designees have to pay ongoing dues? If so, how much?
> > > 18. Will employers have to pay to an industry oversight organization
to
> > fund
> > > any of the designation process? If so, how much?
> > >
> > > Yes, other professions do have designations. They also have
> bureaucracies
> > to
> > > manage them. I'm just wondering how much of a bureaucracy and the
> > associated
> > > costs you envision for your idea. Overall will it cost the industry
more
> > or
> > > less than occasionally hiring and then firing a person with a puffed
up
> > > resume? I honestly don't pretend to know the answer to that. I'm
asking.
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > [ Todays Threads
> >
> > _____
> >
> > [ Todays Threads
>
> _____
>
> [ Todays Threads
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